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  #51  
Old 02-05-2014, 03:07 AM
david s's Avatar
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Default Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Shiralite is an insulating castable made by Shinagawa. There are quite a number of different densities and different temperature applications, but as an example the medium weight product has a density of 1400 kg/m3 (1.4 kg/litre) this is pretty dense compared to perlite which has a density of around 100 kg/m3 (100 g/litre) The castable refractory I use has a density of 2000 kg/m3. (2kg/litre) much the same as brick. Generally the denser the material the more thermally conductive it will be.

Thermal conductivity of the Shiralite approx. 0.4 while the perlite is 0.03 and brick around 1.5

Last edited by david s; 02-05-2014 at 03:37 AM.
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  #52  
Old 02-05-2014, 06:04 AM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 33
Default Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobblerdave View Post
G'day Dan
How longs the dome been done for now? Recon the homebrew should be good and cured and pretty dry in the summer heat. You will not be suffering from steam cracks I bet.
If I were you I'd get myself some curing fires going now . Get that brickwork used to a bit of heat stage by stage..... Then have a pizza cook! No you don't need any insulation for that, just don't lean of the bare bricks after a couple of hours! Add the insulation later. I'm sure you'll have less cracks than someone trying to dry and heat temper the oven all in one go.
Regards dave
You got that right Dave! Laid the last few courses and keystone in 38deg (100F) heat last Wednesday and it's averaged 37deg for the most of the past week! There's a few hairline cracks in the mortar as I just couldn't keep enough water up to it - but I'm not fussed. No homebrew to speak of, but I am three days into my new job as Manager of the BentSpoke Brewing Co... so should be just fine on that front!

My full intention is to cure (just deciding heat bead or gas, tending the later as I've got all the gear on-hand), and then fire up big time for many pizzas with all the folk who've lent a hand building. Can't wait any longer! Any good threads on a curing regime someone can point me at?

Then to build the flue and entry arch (out of Canberra Reds of course).

Then to insulate in this order: brick --> fibre blanket --> vermic/concrete. I do not have Shiralite. Could be convinced to swap blanket and vermicrete order... can anyone point to any science/data on the topic to help me decide?

Then fire again to dry, before a render of (hmmm probably) bond-crete (any other recommendations gladly accepted).

And then maybe a decorative finish if I can find the time. All along the way - cooking.

Still not entirely sure how I'll do thermal break - but will do one somehow. To achieve a "no catch" floor - which is currently immaculately flat and smooth, I Was thinking of laying a thinish (50mm wide) line of vermicrete across the inner arch entry to within about 20mm of the floor surface, and then notching a 50mm wide "trench" across the base of some floor bricks to within 20mm of the surface - but after reading comments here - sounds like that would be a good chance of cracking due to in/out temp diff and heat/cool cycle. Thoughts?

Once again, thanks for all your thoughts/advice/views/opinions - love this forum!
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  #53  
Old 02-05-2014, 06:21 AM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Canberra, Australia
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Default Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Some pics from the build
Attached Thumbnails
New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra-21.-sand-dome.jpg   New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra-22.-max-paddy-7th.jpg   New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra-23.-max-ruby-paddy-handsome-bobs   New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra-24.-2nd-last-course-jigsaw.jpg   New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra-25.-second-last-course-complete.jpg  

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  #54  
Old 02-05-2014, 06:25 AM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 33
Default Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

more pics..
Attached Thumbnails
New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra-26.-final-jigsaw.jpg   New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra-27.-capped.jpg   New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra-28.-apprentice-removing-sand.jpg   New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra-29.-baby-first-fire-oooh-baby  
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  #55  
Old 02-05-2014, 12:46 PM
cobblerdave's Avatar
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Default Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

G'day Dan
Congrats on the new job.... There would be a few out there that would consider it there dream occupation!
My own thoughts on the insulation. 50 mm blanket is worth roughly the same insulation value as 100 mm of V- Crete, without the water. I've helped someone with a pearl-Crete insulation layer and its a shit to work with, cheap, which is good, but you have to let the stuff dry for ages. You have a dry dome so why not trust in the ceramic insulation you have if you want more insulation add more ceramic. You can render over ceramic insulation easier than trying the v-Crete then render.
I have no thermal break it allowed me to support the rear of the chimney on the front of the dome, I don't find I have a great heat loss.
A simple way to achieve a heat break is to place a spacer, say a couple of layers of 4 mm ply. Remove later and backfill with V-Crete later. On the floor I bed a length of angle aluminum or stainless in the V-Crete to give you a more durable surface.
On curing your oven there's a section on firing your oven give that a read its tried and proven.
Hope something here might help
Great work , love the pics
Regards dave
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  #56  
Old 02-05-2014, 01:23 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Hey Dave what about the curing vs tending conversation we had.
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  #57  
Old 02-05-2014, 03:00 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Canberra, Australia
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Default Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Quote:
Originally Posted by oasiscdm View Post
Hey Dave what about the curing vs tending conversation we had.
Is that in the public domain Colin? Link to thread?

Thanks for all that Dave!
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  #58  
Old 02-05-2014, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Quote:
Originally Posted by oasiscdm View Post
Hey Dave what about the curing vs tending conversation we had.
G'day
Sorry Colin spell checks done the thing again . "Tending"
I'm going to take it means tempering.
Yes I still think there are three distinct processes going on when we "cure on oven.
The cement curing, a chemical reaction over time.
Drying out the water slowly the water you introduce when building so it doesn't turn to steam and put undue stresses on the structure.
Heat tempering the structure in incremental stages to its final operating temps.
Colin if I remember rightly you had fairly much dried each layer of you build so when it came time to "cure" you were disciplined and took your time and you dome is crack free.
Uninsulated domes dry fast and I eaten pizza out of 2 bare domes now with no problems . Insulated especially V-Crete are different, the water must be taken out slowly, teased out rather than driven out.
I've had my oven wet by the wheather on more than once. As long as your cautious and take it easy a couple of small fires will return it to a state which is not fully dry but dry enough to cook pizza without cracking anything. The dry ceramic insulation layer acts I think as an expansion layer and the vent on the dome allows the water to escape.
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Last edited by cobblerdave; 02-05-2014 at 03:32 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  #59  
Old 02-05-2014, 03:20 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Canberra, Australia
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Default Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobblerdave View Post
Congrats on the new job.... There would be a few out there that would consider it there dream occupation!
Aah, yeah, you're not wrong. Every time I wake up, I pinch myself to make sure it's still real! It's already fun, and the beer hasn't even started flowing yet - though the mash tun, kettle and fermentation tanks (all 8000L of them!) are in place and in the process of being all connected up as we speak. Then, I never, ever drink crappy commercial beer again. Looking at 18 different varieties of beer on tap with everything from cask conditioned real ales to lambics and hand-crushed cider. If you're ever in Canberra, do drop in. We'll be open from mid-April.
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  #60  
Old 02-05-2014, 03:58 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 33
Default Re: New 42'' pompeii build in Canberra

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobblerdave View Post
G'day

I've had my oven wet by the wheather on more than once. As long as your cautious and take it easy a couple of small fires will return it to a state which is not fully dry but dry enough to cook pizza without cracking anything. The dry ceramic insulation layer acts I think as an expansion layer and the vent on the dome allows the water to escape.
Thanks for all of this. Must admit, the argument of lack of water absorbtion in blanket (vs vermicrete) for both curing, and if(/when) the oven gets wet is an attractive property that might mean I should go get more blanket and do away with vermicrete entirely. Given the only underfloor insulation Ive got is about 120mm of vermicrete, what thickness of blanket do you think would be sufficient to retain heat in the oven to cook for days - as that is something I definitely want to aim for.

And thanks for the reminder about the vent in the render - had forgotten about that gold idea, which I agree is a very wise addition.
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