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Lancer 04-10-2013 04:54 PM

Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...
Trick here is finding the stuff needed.

Bought one red clay brick yesterday, potter seems to know what he's doing. The brick is very light weight, I was surprised. There was an old oven, not pizza, with his bricks burning very hot and they looked okay. The one I bought is sitting in our outdoor wood burning cooking area where it will be in the flame and I'll see how it holds up. Cost P12, or about a quarter of a US dollar. (I'm from Oregon) Can buy bags of red clay as well for the refractory cement. Also found stuff I think is lime (called Zemcoat Superfine) which is advertised as stucco, in bags sold next to Portland cement. Stuff is white in color. Got the brand name and will research it.

I am so thrilled with yesterdays explorations! All is available, thank you God. Now a trip to Camiguin Island, a nearby volcanic island I can see out my window, looking for pumice, or perlite. If they're selling the stuff there, we're in business.

Another post I made on this forum before finding out I needed a 'build' thread copied and added here...

Been a few years since I was here but finally the houses are 99% done and I'm getting ready to start on the pizza oven. Right now we're sourcing some really great red clay we've seen in various pottery and tripod stoves made in the area. When we find it we'll mold, sun dry and fire the bricks ourselves, only way to be sure. Also planning a trip to Camiguin Island, a volcanic island to get perlite, aka pumice. Have a question about this stuff, is it ash or little lava rocks?

Another question, to insulate I'm considering layers. Two filled voids defined by three layers of fire brick (1st) and refractory concrete. (2nd & 3rd) Firewood is at a premium here and they also use "coconut coal" which is dried, toasted, coconut shells. Plan on using rice husks in the fuel mix because unlimited quantities are basically free. So insulation has to be very well done to save $. First layer of the oven is the fire brick set with cement and capped with refractory concrete. Then I'll set some lava rocks into the refractory concrete to support the next layer with a void between filled with perlite 100%. Then we'll build a 1/4" plywood form with cutouts allowing the lava to come through. This form will eventually burn away I'm sure. When we pour perlite rich refractory concrete it will be held up by the lava rocks which also shouldn't conduct heat due to the holes in lava. Above this poured layer, with more lava rock supports, I'll put fiberglass insulation. Someone mentioned the outside of their oven was 150 degrees. Even if my oven is this hot with a perlite filled void that's still not hot enough to harm fiberglass insulation, yes? Attics in the desert get hotter than that and fiberglass insulation is used. Then I'll encase the fiberglass in a void and pour a final layer of refractory concrete, using again lava rock supports through to the previous layer of concrete. Both voids are bridged by lava rocks. Then a nice tile mosaic...etc, then pizza. Sound reasonable? Good plan? Help me make it better, any ideas?

Here's a pic, the seawall addition is now done. The pizza oven will go on the main floor front right side. Just below and before the blue water tank.

What it looks like up above...

The circular thing sticking out of the seawall is the pool. In yellow is Abby, 3 year old girl we're adopting with her 2 yo brother Augustine.

New lapdog, Gary, and me.

That's it, any help would be much appreciated. We're moving to make the wood fired pizza oven dream a reality! Help!

Thanks Forno Bravo for this...and thanks to the kind fellas who have helped me to date...cobblerdave, brickie in oz, and david s.

Lancer 04-10-2013 05:06 PM

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...
"I talked to the baker. Much of the advice was obvious--don't let it get cold--but some you can use. Definitely bake on the stones and not in a pan. Mopping the floor is more to clean ashes than anything else. They do pizza at 800-850, hearth bread at 500 and most other baking at 350-400. As you can see, their oven does not have the insulation yours will."

reserved for lists
Insulate under the floor brick.
Silica 38%
"The bricks are fired at about 900 degrees for about a month using smoldering rice husks."
"If you dont provide sideways thrust (buttressing) to an arch it will fail, build some fancy brickwork to the side of the arch."
"Steve, you should start the fires to eliminate the water from the oven before you do the stucco."
"Decide in haste, repent at leisure."

mrchipster 04-10-2013 05:23 PM

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...
What a great place for an oven. Remember to insulate under your floor bricks.

Welcome to the club.


UtahBeehiver 04-10-2013 06:58 PM

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...
For those seeing Lancer's new thread for the first time, look at his original thread regarding the adoption of the girl and boy. It is heart warming.

Lancer 04-10-2013 10:57 PM

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...
Thanks guys.

I didn't show this in the other thread but here's the plan...

Its an onion dome located in Portugal and I always wanted to build one, just like wanted to build a pizza oven. Two birds, one batch of stone.

That means I'll not start the brick of the dome curving in from the base, but curving out, and I can't carry the weight straight down to the floor, it must be seen to curve out, and that means thick walls. Happily the fire brick here is very light. Brick backed by 5" of refractory cement mixed with perlite. Brick maybe what, 4" backed by 5" means 9" thick walls. Question, does metal bar work in the dome or does its varying expansion and contraction rate vs the concrete cause problems? I'd like to carry the metal bar floor cage right up to the chimney for added strength. Wrap it up and around within that 5" backing. That alone would carry the curve so its important to have metal bar, hope you guys think its okay.

The opening will have to be supported by some sort of protrusion in the floor. If I pour the floor 7" thick (refractory with perlite) I can likely cantilever the floor out and build the arch entrance on top of that.

Overall height, 9'ish, maybe a bit more, including chimney with 4.5 ft height being the floor. The floor will have to occur at some point in the onion, perhaps where the dome starts. If I make the floor a bit higher though I can help support from within the turning out of the base of the walls. I'd like to hear your thoughts...

The columns I have no concern about, just the fancy base and top of the columns might prove interesting...finishing work.

They likely will be aprox 2'6" in height. Could make them higher by leaving out one of the scalloped rows. That would bring them to around 3' I think. Yeah, I think I'll do that.

I consider the onion dome to be a good choice. There's room within the top of the onion to widen, flatten, and curl back the chimney so it starts over the opening and ends over the center at top where the pointy thing is shown.

Insulation plan is described above but consists of three layers of material and two voids. The onion shape will allow lots of room for insulation, particularly above.

mrchipster, thanks for the welcome, I'll use perlite concrete as a base, good insulating qualities from what I read here.

cobblerdave 04-11-2013 03:10 AM

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...
I tell ya turn you back for 2 secs and the ideas are coming thick and fast!
Now first on that brick... It's probably light because it is airated great for houses but with no mass not great for ovens.
I am really interested in those tripod ovens I' m pretty sure I be eaten chicken on a stick out of those things before.( young sailor Dave) I didn't really care how they worked then but now I have a better idea. The first layers were basically compressed and the final airated ... Basically a mini forno. Run on charcoal they did the job but I wouldn't put my hand on the outside but I certainly ate the chicken.
Back to basics firstly separate the oven from your final shape and finish . First on your base, insulation in your case, 4 ins of perlite cement, then the hearth mass, the dome built on that,an entrance 63 per cent of the interior of the dome height, finally the dome is encased in another 4 ins of pealite cement.
Then when the ovens done , incase it with the final structure and do whatever steel shape with cement .... By this stage you a brick and cement expert
Regards dave

Regards Dave

Lancer 04-11-2013 03:37 AM

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...
cobblerdave, that's good to know, thanks mate. I'll talk to the potter about making some not aerated. I take it that they mix in air somehow and that weakens the brick.

Can you define a term for me please? "hearth mass" is what, the poured floor over the perlite mix?

Wayne73 04-11-2013 03:45 AM

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...
Holly crap!

cobblerdave 04-11-2013 04:24 AM

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...
You really have to get back to reading those plans! It's all in there.
The thermal Mass is the ,hearth the floor , the dome, it's the mass of any oven you heat up and retains the heat to cook with. The insulation is to keep the heat (and your wood)from wasting away to the base and the outside air .
Same in a way as running your car with the windows open and the vent set to outside..... You not trying to cool all of the Philippines are you? What you need to do to make it work properly ,recycle air setting, and insulate, close the windows with there tinted glass.

Lancer 04-11-2013 05:50 AM

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...
Oh okay, the whole thing, got it. :)

I'm not big on plans, though I downloaded them as you suggested and read a bit. Everything in the pics above I did without making detailed plans, just enough to get the sign off from the local engineer. I keep it in my head mostly and that's always worked okay so far. You guys have been so good at explaining basic concepts and that has really helped my thinking, sorry if I ask a dumb question once in a while...

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