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  #271  
Old 12-28-2013, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

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Originally Posted by Lancer View Post
Refined the list as follows,,,

3 parts river sand.

2 parts fire clay

1/2 part portland

1/2 part silicate

1 part lime. This comes in buckets and between the portland and silicate in it makes the portions balance a bit better than it appears.

The kiln is now gone. I'm not used to getting my arse kicked by a project and though I had only charcoal, no coal, its left me a little concerned for this project. For instance, is the mortar mix good? I think it is based on other stuff I've seen both here at forno and another place on the net. Still...I was sure about making quicklime too.

The normal stuff that accumulates on any large flat surface has been cleared off the oven base, and the base is being prepared to receive lava rocks (pumice) under the location of the dome. These will be solidly set with a minimal but strong use of refractory mortar. Having been through 1 substantial quake I don't dare leave the dome foundation loose. The lava rock in other floor locations will then be set with mortar in a manner not as exacting. The gaps in the lava rock will then be filled in with perlite granules to complete the insulation. Found perlite in the very last place I looked, I was astonished. Its manufactured on Luzon and is dirt cheap compared to prices I see in the West, like everything else except Portland.

Question. Does perlite absorb water? I can test this when we get a bag open but an hoping someone is in the know.

I feel like I'm doing a few almost new methods, such as making refractory mortar which maybe everyone feels like they don't know enough to help. So now there's worries, but it will get built. In the future is pumice and perlite combined, and the onion dome. Have to get the carpenter, Fidel, to set up guides for that. He just finished the dumbwaiter so he's available. One less burden on this old brain.

I really need to sit and read the thread again, get some new inspiration from the wisdom shared here. Its time to build! :b:
Your ratios are going to make a very rich mix. You might want to make sure that the river sand is not rounded grained...that makes for weak mortar and concrete.


Perlite does not absorb moisture.
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  #272  
Old 12-28-2013, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

It depends on what kind of perlite you have. Some of it is coated with silicon and does not absorb water, but the uncoated stuff, which is the only perlite available to me , absorbs water like crazy. It is often used as a soil conditioner by nurseries for this reason.
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  #273  
Old 12-28-2013, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

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Only innovators can make a better wheel.
Reminds me of an old "B.C." cartoon I read in the funny papers 30 years ago. A stone age guy is shown chipping away at a square wheel. His amigo asks "What will it do?" The stone age cutter replies "It will roll." Or some such, been a long time.

Kiln project was a square wheel.

Stonecutter, can you tell me what you mean by "rich mix"? Also how you would improve on it and explain the improvements to a layman? I'd appreciate it. Getting this aspect right is the single most important issue regarding any oven, yes? Thanks...

The "river sand" is very fine at least, amazingly so. It doesn't look round to me, just small, some is not much bigger than dust which doesn't blow away. I wonder if its called river sand and its actually dug out of a hill somewhere. Wife just told me the guys that brought it said it was from "right by the river." I have 3 choices for sand. First is this stuff from the rivers up in the hills that I described above. Second is beach sand which is rounded and now illegal to take. Third is crushed rock, and the masons tell me they only use it if nothing else is available. Its black and has big granules and a lot of dust from being crushed.

I added some of the river sand to the pool sand filter and it really increased the effectiveness. Sand for the filter is also not supposed to be round to be effective so its the same as you described for the WFO. So, maybe its a good rough sand because it works in the filter, for what its worth. Come to think about it, maybe if pool sand were available it could be used in a WFO mix. Unfortunately its not available to me, and anywhere it would be expensive to get. Supposed to change filter sand every 10 years because its been worn smooth in the filter process. Sorry if I just told you stuff you already know.

david s, thanks.

So I'll test the perlite to see if it has silicon...which might melt away anyway. If water is absorbed then I have another issue to resolve. The foundation of the oven has been made to drain water, like a large sink with the concrete poured and troweled trending downwards to a hole in the center. My insulation material is a combination of lava rocks and perlite filling in the cracks and spaces. It could turn into a sopping wet mess down there. Somehow I have to direct the water that comes out of the oven away from the perlite. Have to think about that one, any ideas?

Last edited by Lancer; 12-28-2013 at 02:42 PM.
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  #274  
Old 12-30-2013, 02:39 AM
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Default Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Rich or poor we start mixing refractory mortar tomorrow in the early AM.
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  #275  
Old 12-30-2013, 12:16 PM
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Exclamation Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Gudday lancer
Hearth shots can be a bit boring, to the owner/builder its pretty special.
Now yours going to be special and your pics are always plentiful and top notch.
Awaiting the pics
Regards dave
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  #276  
Old 12-31-2013, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Took a batch of pics today cobblerdave, and thanks for your kind words. Early work attaching lava rocks to the raised platform with the home made refractory mortar, long may it last. I've seen some amazing builds here though, and am always impressed by the exacting work done. If I do half as well with my weird plan and the shortages of materials locally I'll be a happy man. Your words mean a lot to me CD, with a difficult build ahead and I again thank you for them.

Last edited by Lancer; 12-31-2013 at 06:19 AM.
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  #277  
Old 01-05-2014, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Tested the perlite we have today. While the spaces between the granules fill with water the actual stuff does not, which is good news. It should shed water over time.
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  #278  
Old 01-05-2014, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

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Stonecutter, can you tell me what you mean by "rich mix"? Also how you would improve on it and explain the improvements to a layman? I'd appreciate it. Getting this aspect right is the single most important issue regarding any oven, yes? Thanks...

When a mortar mix is referred as rich, that means there is a high ratio of binder to aggregate. Conversely, a lean mix has a higher aggregate to binder ratio. True, there is some forgiveness in what is needed when building an oven, but there is a lot to know about mortar within the full scope of masonry. You will be O.K. with 3:1:1:1, and that ratio is has been used by many on the forum successfully. I use a leaner mixture.

The "river sand" is very fine at least, amazingly so. It doesn't look round to me, just small, some is not much bigger than dust which doesn't blow away. I wonder if its called river sand and its actually dug out of a hill somewhere. Wife just told me the guys that brought it said it was from "right by the river." I have 3 choices for sand. First is this stuff from the rivers up in the hills that I described above. Second is beach sand which is rounded and now illegal to take. Third is crushed rock, and the masons tell me they only use it if nothing else is available. Its black and has big granules and a lot of dust from being crushed.
Sand is as important than the binder or gauging material. The larger the voids...like the back of the firebrick on a dome... the larger the aggregate in the mortar should be. Super tight joints...then use finer sand. The crushed rock aggregate is what I would use ( I assume that the largest particles in this sand are no larger than this - * of course, that is without seeing it...but it sounds like the mason sand I prefer to work with. The ideal mortar sand is well graded, with particles ranging from course to fine. There would be nothing wrong with blending a couple kinds of sand if that is what it takes. If the river sand is sharp and graded, then that will be fine too.
Sorry I haven't answered sooner, I missed your reply. Hope that helps.
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  #279  
Old 01-05-2014, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

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Tested the perlite we have today. While the spaces between the granules fill with water the actual stuff does not, which is good news. It should shed water over time.
I have never seen perlite absorb water...ever. At least none of the stuff I have used..and it's labeled as Horticultural Perlite.
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  #280  
Old 01-06-2014, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Thanks for the reply stonecutter. I'll try making a one cubic order of the crushed stone. Sometimes, like with the limestone corp, the minimum is 6 cubic meters.

I'd have to think about that one.
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