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  #21  
Old 12-29-2010, 04:18 PM
Serf
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2
Default Re: AZ Piazzalos Unite

Hi all!

I'm getting ready to contruct my oven in Central Phoenix. I will be checking in with all of you as I progress and watching the postings regarding sourcing of supplies. I will let you know if I find anything that is valuable to add.

Cheers!

Rich
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  #22  
Old 12-29-2010, 08:02 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 423
Default Re: AZ Piazzalos Unite

Rich,

Just let us all know which way you will be building. We in the group can help you find the materials etc.

Best o luck!

Chris
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  #23  
Old 01-01-2011, 11:30 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2
Default Re: AZ Piazzalos Unite

Thanks Chris.....I appreciate the support! I will be in touch soon......

Rich
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  #24  
Old 01-01-2011, 02:47 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Posts: 397
Default Re: AZ Piazzalos Unite

Hi Chris,

Check your PM's.

How did your WW bread turn out? I did another no-knead bread in the Dutch oven this morning. Yummy.

Pizza for dinner tonight, though we'll cook in the kitchen oven. Another "no-burn" day for the wfo. We're going to try making the dough with part semolina flour.

Cheers,
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  #25  
Old 01-01-2011, 03:24 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 359
Default Re: AZ Piazzalos Unite

FYI, when I called the maricopa county for more information on the no-burn days, they pretty much laughed us off the phone. They said if you're cooking with the fire, it doesn't come under the no-burn ban. And even if it did, they wouldn't cite us for a small wood fire like that--they're only after people burning large quantities of trash.
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  #26  
Old 01-01-2011, 07:02 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Posts: 397
Default Re: AZ Piazzalos Unite

Hi Modthyrth,

Wow, those folks down at the Maricopa County offices sure have a sense of humor, don't they? Our wood fired ovens are described in the following regulation:

Residential Fireplaces and Burning - Maricopa County Air Quality Department

If the person you spoke to wasn't able to interpret this regulation then he did you a dis-service. Understandably, there are too few employees to enforce the regulation by driving around and looking for violators. Of course they want to come down on big violators, that's where the glory is. However, they do respond to complaints by neighbors, or others, who provide specific dates, times and address. Sorry about that, it's just the way it's done in our society.

On the bright side, the fines are minimal, only $50 to $250 if you get caught two times in one year, and it seems unlikely that you would get turned in if you're on good terms with your neighbors. I haven't heard of anyone doing time for a pizza oven conviction. LOL

Can you imagine this nightmare scenario?

Thug: Hey buddy, Whatcha doin' time for?

Buddy: (Trying to sound tough) Ummm, I'm a big time polluter, fired up my pizza oven in violation of the no-burn regulations. They got me in a sting operation as I walked out of the house with cheese topped pizzas.

Thug: Yah, too bad. I like mine "Chicago style".

Buddy: Ummm, ok, I'll remember that. You can stand back now.

Thug: I like your pink outfit.

Buddy: Ummm, yah.....a gift from Sheriff Joe. (Oh how I wish I were back in Kansas).

Cheers,
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  #27  
Old 01-01-2011, 07:53 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 359
Default Re: AZ Piazzalos Unite

I read those regulations carefully, too (I have a J.D. in my back pocket, in fact), and we called for clarification since cooking fires are NOT mentioned anywhere in that section. Not sure where their technical definition of "outdoor burning devices" is, but according to the good folks who actually enforce the regulation, that does NOT include wood fired grills (which they would categorize our pizza ovens under). It covers chimineas, outdoor fireplaces, and fire pits.

Further, they decided that we were exempt under section a, which states, " If the woodburning device is the sole source of heat or fuel for cooking in the residence." They chose to interpret that phrase to exempt any fire made for cooking. Yes, it's ambiguously worded. It might be interpreted as "the sole source of heat or the sole source of cooking fuel," but that's not how the language has been interpreted by the enforcement agency. Rather, think of simply removing one clause: you are exempt from the ban if the fire is "cooking fuel in the residence." The word "sole" only modifies the first clause.

I am an *extremely* law abiding citizen. I've never even been stopped for speeding (not just because I'm lucky, but because I'm the kind of annoying driver who actually comes to full and complete stops at stop signs). I dutifully read the materials, I called for clarification from the appropriate government office, I received unambiguous approval to go ahead. I do refrain from any other types of burns (not that we even have a fireplace ;-) ) on burn ban days, but I feel quite safe in running the occasional pizza fire. And yes, our neighbors are our biggest fans. ;-)
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  #28  
Old 01-01-2011, 09:44 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 423
Default Re: AZ Piazzalos Unite

Today's bread turned out well. In fact, I still have two extra loaves left over. YUM-O!

Being the environmental engineer to many large and small companies as an expensive consultant at one time in my life not too long ago, the exemption rule is Rule 314 section 303 (http://www.maricopa.gov/aq/divisions...edRules.aspx):

303 OPEN OUTDOOR FIRES NOT REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A BURN
PERMIT: The person conducting any type of fire listed in Section 303 of this
rule does not need to obtain a burn permit. However, the person conducting the
fire may be required to contact the Control Officer for permission to burn prior to
igniting the fire when specified below in Subsections 303.1 through 303.3.

303.1 Fires Allowed At Any Time of The Year in Maricopa County or Area A:
a. Cooking for immediate human consumption.


The reason this exemption exists is due to the county would cause problems for all the folks businesses who use fire to cook their food (BBQ's etc.) Also, they cannot stop folks from cooking and eating, where as comfort heating is another story. This is all because Maricopa County cannot meet the ambient air quality standards for particulate matter. This in turn causes no burn days since the inversion holds the particulate matter in the air. The thing is, the particulate matter is so small, that it will not settle out readily and gets trapped in the lungs, thus the regulation. If Maricopa county cannot figure out how to control the particulate (road paving, crazy construction rules, no burn days, etc) then they will loose highway funding - an expensive proposition. Gotta love the EPA.
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  #29  
Old 01-03-2011, 01:47 PM
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 235
Default Re: AZ Piazzalos Unite

Sounds like my experience at the City of Mesa when I was checking on permits. I got bounced between Permits and Zoning and Planning, but I got Permits to tell me that I didn't need a permit and that that the Mechanical Code didn't require my chimney to exceed roof height; and I got Zoning to tell me that I wasn't violating any zoning ordinance. Which set me up for a slam dunk approval with the HOA.
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  #30  
Old 01-03-2011, 02:49 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 423
Default Re: AZ Piazzalos Unite

That is a huge problem pretty much everywhere. The departments do not talk with each other very well.

I was working for a spin off of Honeywell in 2002/2003. We were looking at the construction of an R&D add on to the plant - moving into Chandler form Wisconsin. If we could not get the permits in quickly, we would loose the facility. Long story short, I had issues with every department down there. To top it off, my ombudsman was not very helpful at first - guess they did not think additional jobs were good or something and that closing down the facility would not affect them - uh 250 jobs...

Anyhow, I had to go to the vice mayor of Chandler and discuss it with him - he was also my barber. There I was, with half my hair cut in the chair and he was on the phone with the guys down at the planning office getting the thing moving again. So for $12 including tip, I got a multi-million dollar project back on track. Fortunately the county was easier to deal with at the time for the environmental permits.
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