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  #21  
Old 02-14-2013, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikku View Post
I "Googled" (Xypex) and came across a report on a project "Tsuen Wan Station Project" --an evaluation of this product.
It is really an amazing product from what I briefly read. Forms a crystaline structure that fills voids in concrete to prevent water penetration.. And the crystaline structure continues to grow with age. Properties that remain equalling the service life of the concrete. That is my short version of a 17 page report.

Also, it stated that it could be applied to the outside of a surface- presumably as a liquid form (or) in some type of mortar to give waterproofing qualities. But a better scenerio would be to use it when the concrete is being mixed--instead of a surface treatment- the entire casting would be waterproofed!

Simply amazing.

I would assume that this product would be popular and available here. It would be used in highway and rail (tunnel) construction where water is an issue causing degradation of reinforcement etc. Japan has a huge infrastructure of tunnels in its transportation network, both above and below sea level! I guess searching for it might not be so difficult--That is "if you know the right question to ask"...(Abreviated "Laurentius quote")

Another great piece of information to file in the back of your mind. If a situation arises where you are building an oven or (in fact anything) from concrete- that is subject to running water, or contact with high concentrations of water--that could be problematic...there is a product available to solve the problem--and a name for it!
That product was discussed a little on another forum I belong to. The thing about that product is that it is relatively new, and hasn't really been around long enough to see if there are issues that develop later. I am specifically thinking about the additives....but I am pretty conservative when it comes to adding things to mortar or concrete other than what has been around for centuries. Maybe my reservations about Xypex are unfounded and it may do as promised, but when something seems to be too good to be true, it usually is.
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  #22  
Old 02-14-2013, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Stonecutter- thanks for checking in..
I am really new to this forum--only one month as of today! But so far, there have been a lot of really talented persons who have checked out what I have said and truely built on those ideas. All have given me clarity to what I am attempting to do. I have learned alot over this short time.

You seem to have a wealth of experience in what you do--great photos on your homepage and your work is superior.

You seem very conservative based on your comments of cements etc, but much more open to the use of this "media" to communicate. The same media that you use to show your great skills and accomplishments. With that in mind, I would assume that you would seek out materials that would improve and protect your builds so that future generations "Possibly, hundreds of years from now could reflect back and appreciate your efforts today"!

Welcome back! class of 2007! Your words of experience are greatly welcome!

The castable refractory that I am using is new compared to brick--if my oven lasts 5, 20, or more years...which part will remain? Firebrick? Cast dome? maybe parts of the base...not the steel though? But it will have had utility for the life of it's builder. Longer than that is a lot to expect from any material!

Water can be the builder's biggest enemy...as you well know, a few drops of it in a crack on a stone when frozen can split the largest boulder eventually turning it to sand--then dust!
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  #23  
Old 02-15-2013, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikku View Post
You seem very conservative based on your comments of cements etc, but much more open to the use of this "media" to communicate. The same media that you use to show your great skills and accomplishments. With that in mind, I would assume that you would seek out materials that would improve and protect your builds so that future generations "Possibly, hundreds of years from now could reflect back and appreciate your efforts today"!
By my own admission I am conservative when using CHEMICAL ADDITIVES to mortar and concrete, but not in any approach that has anything to do with building...my latest oven is a good example of what I am talking about. I do mostly custom work, and with most of that work, I rarely do the same thing twice, which allows me to constantly try new methods and techniques..and yes, I always try to use quality material that will add to the longevity of whatever is built.
My reservations with products like Xypex are this...whenever masonry is made to be "waterproof" you will now have other issues to think about. Mortar or concrete absorb moisture yes, but it also releases it. When this process is hampered by something added to it which is meant to keep water out of the material itself, the damage is greatly exhilarated than normal. An example of this is when portland based mortar is used over a lime mortar in restoration work...the cement mortar traps moisture behind it and it destroys the work because the masonry can't breath anymore. Modern concrete uses portland cement and by nature it doesn't breath very well, thus the need to "waterproof" it in certain applications, because it readily absorbs moisture.

I don't know enough about Xypex to say if it is a good product...but I do know about issues that come up when you don't find ways to work with nature and instead try to hold it back or radically alter something that has been used for centuries...that is where my view point is coming from. I'm not saying that I'm right and using chemicals is wrong either, just that this is my approach with products like this.
Everything breaks down overtime too, so the question for me would be, how does the chemical being used affect the product in a relatively short time? Because, lets be honest...I am not under the delusion that my work will be around for centuries...too many variables there. Realistically, the best quality mortar or concrete out there will develop some sort of maintenance issue within 20 - 50 years. I guess if you have a waterproofing chemical that doesn't cause rapid decomposition of your masonry work within that time frame, IMO, that is a pretty good product.

All that said, I admit that my knowledge has more to do with with stonemasonry, not concrete...I have only started learning about concrete for only about the last 8 years or so.
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Last edited by stonecutter; 02-15-2013 at 07:42 AM.
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  #24  
Old 02-15-2013, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

I am really happy to read what you say!

A lot of us "old farts" after doing something the same for a long time, are resistant to change. Similarly, we like to argue or look at everything in a negative way--fast to point out faults, slow on giving useful advice or praise!

Another old saying "Jack of all trades, master of none" is a description of me.
The "Jack", description (tries everything but never really getting good at anything). You seem more like the "Master tradesman", (testing new things-but only incorporating them into a build if they "pass your threshold of performance".)

I am glad to make your acquaintance!

On a different note: I see by some previous threads that the topic of "render recipe's" has been massaged to death...just takes some searching to find answers right beneath my nose!
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  #25  
Old 02-15-2013, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Stonecutter is a Master Craftsman, an artist in stone as well.
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  #26  
Old 02-15-2013, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

But he is a slacker when it comes to building his oven.
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  #27  
Old 02-15-2013, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

As for the first thing--I thought that is what I just said!

As for the second part, I don't know? --have not even gotten my toes wet on this forum, but got close to burning my fingers a little while back. Now trying to tread more lightly without making too many waves. Seems like there is a "wolf pack" behind the scenes---have to wait to see who holds the spot of "alpha male?" "Leader of the pack" v rooooooooooommmmm!

Keep the ideas coming in!

This forum is addicting as pointed out by others, I think I'll go back to some "Korean white liquor and lime (Shochu-lime-hi) for a while" and see where these threads go on their own!"
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  #28  
Old 02-15-2013, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

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Originally Posted by Tscarborough View Post
But he is a slacker when it comes to building his oven.
Ouch..the truth hurts. I do have some legit reasons about the delay...one being some serious health issues that my wife has been having the last few months. Another is that this base is unconventional, at least I think it is...I have never seen another like it. Plus, I tore the stonework down twice...yeah I know. Not excuses here, just sayin!

Hopefully I can keep moving forward from here and post pizza pictures instead of construction. Thanks for the compliments BTW, much appreciated.
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  #29  
Old 02-15-2013, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

My oven began because I wanted to build a timbrel vault, so I can relate.
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  #30  
Old 02-15-2013, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Fabulous work SC. And I hope your wife will be getting healthy again soon. Maybe a fresh baked pie will do her some good. As loosely connected as we all are, know that we all share in each others accomplishments...and pains.

Best Regards,
AT
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