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  #11  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:19 PM
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tochigi Prefecture, Japan
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Same here, but concrete is not my business- all kinds of little to bigger carpentry jobs are. But it always pops up. Sometimes you must have small batches of concrete and delivery cost really eats up money fast. For around the house stuff, I have had sand and stone delivered - 3 to 5 m3 loads. Anything left over, instead of leaving a pile, I put into 5 gallon-size UV resistant mesh sand bags. Just put the bag into a 5-gal plastic bucket and fill to the top and tie it closed! Crushed stone sells for about $24 per ton.

These bags of sand or crushed stone can be easily stacked up out of the way.
When I need some concrete for any little job. One sand, one stone, 1/3 bag portland and I get 1/30m3 mix of concrete. By weights- the sand is 27kg, stone is 31kg, 8.3 kg portland. And there is another bucket that is marked for water. Mostly consistent concrete--variable is if it rained and the sand/stone is wet. Really have to be careful.

I don't have a mixer but use a heavy-duty rubber 65liter bucket, plaster people sometimes use them here. Mix with a Toshiba heavy duty drill (actually designed only for mixing).. That was about $400 several years ago but over time has mixed a lot of stuff. Just the right speed to blend. Always start with water, then portland to make slurry, then sand, finally crushed stone. 1 container takes about 3 to 4 minutes to mix??? Really don't know-- but you have to place it near where you are working because you cannot carry it full. Just mix and dump.

For better concrete, can add some finer sand and portland, always watching the water. Using this drill however, you are stuck with a slightly wet mix.
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  #12  
Old 02-14-2013, 02:06 AM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

I think it is good planning to make the supporting slab waterproof by adding an admixture.this prevents water wicking up from the base after torrential or extended rain periods.
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  #13  
Old 02-14-2013, 02:58 AM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

David S- Hello!
What material would you use as an admixture to do that?
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  #14  
Old 02-14-2013, 03:31 AM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Gulf- Hello!
David S warned me about getting the water out as well! I finished the main insulation this afternoon (other thread) and was B.S. ing with an electrician friend--telling him all about WFO's and did a quick calculation. Yesterday and today- I plastered on about 80 liters of water in this pericrete mix. That is over 20 gallons of water! Wow!!!! I even wet the dome so that the water would not immediately suck out of the mix...where the water hit yesterdays' work--zap and it was gone!

Tomorrow, I have to put the heavy wheels on and roll the entire thing next to the garage door, some sun and wind. With a chimney in place and the rest of the insulation in place --by next week, I was thinking about some kind of an initial dry-out. I saw the "Kanagi Dude- Heat Bead Cure" thread, and for the life of me could not figure out what a heat bead might be. After looking at the photos--what it looked like are "charcoal briquettes"--Is that an area name for the same thing?

What is the "real poop" on them? Too hot they burn up firebrick or refractory or what?

I did not read your entire thread--I will have to and pick up the tips mixed up in the text.

(Other note): The formwork just takes a little time, playing around with a compound slide miter box. Once the angles are set- the ring cuts are the same, inner form and outer form. Just the length of the leg changes. It can be laid out with a template on plywood, by simply dividing to make a 16 side figure. No magic.

Really I was just playing with the form and once it was completed, thought it was a waste of time not to fill it with refractory..That is when this all got started!

A very-very long time ago, I did some refractory work at a site that processes taconite ore into pellets. Their kilns are huge! I worked many weeks on making a form for the "dam" inside one of these kilns--at that time, it was the first time an APGreen contractor ever poured this section in one piece. There were probably thousands of bags that went into this single casting. On top of that, the form had to be made then disassembled to a size that would fit into the kiln opening door! As a "refractory carpenter", I got an "adda boy" thumbs up when the form held and a reminder to get back to work on a special form for a recuperation duct. Funny how some work experience gives a little confidence to try a new hobby.
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  #15  
Old 02-14-2013, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikku View Post
David S- Hello!
What material would you use as an admixture to do that?
The stuff I use is called Xypex C 1000 NF, it does a number of things, one of them being to make the concrete waterproof. This brand may not be available to you, but something similar should be. It is expensive.

Last edited by david s; 02-14-2013 at 12:45 PM.
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  #16  
Old 02-14-2013, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

I "Googled" (Xypex) and came across a report on a project "Tsuen Wan Station Project" --an evaluation of this product.
It is really an amazing product from what I briefly read. Forms a crystaline structure that fills voids in concrete to prevent water penetration.. And the crystaline structure continues to grow with age. Properties that remain equalling the service life of the concrete. That is my short version of a 17 page report.

Also, it stated that it could be applied to the outside of a surface- presumably as a liquid form (or) in some type of mortar to give waterproofing qualities. But a better scenerio would be to use it when the concrete is being mixed--instead of a surface treatment- the entire casting would be waterproofed!

Simply amazing.

I would assume that this product would be popular and available here. It would be used in highway and rail (tunnel) construction where water is an issue causing degradation of reinforcement etc. Japan has a huge infrastructure of tunnels in its transportation network, both above and below sea level! I guess searching for it might not be so difficult--That is "if you know the right question to ask"...(Abreviated "Laurentius quote")

Another great piece of information to file in the back of your mind. If a situation arises where you are building an oven or (in fact anything) from concrete- that is subject to running water, or contact with high concentrations of water--that could be problematic...there is a product available to solve the problem--and a name for it!
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  #17  
Old 02-14-2013, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

I hope for additional input from more (pro's in this forum), would also like to expand the thread to include a recipe for render.

This is something I need to tackle very soon! Some info would be greatly appreciated! Or has this been covered somewhere before???
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  #18  
Old 02-14-2013, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Mikku,
Yes, heat beads are charcoal briquettes in the U.S. We just use the "heat beads" term on this forum to pay homage to the Master . That is what Karangi Dude calls them. I believe that heat bead is an Australian term.

David S. is "golden" for reminding everyone to dry the V/Pcrete layer before rendering. I listened to, and followed his advice.

As for as the KD "heat beads " (charcoal briquettes) Cure: Make sure that you use the lighting technique KD used. The charcoal chimneys are kindled with paper, not starter fluid, which as you probably know will add bad flavor to metal grills. There is no telling how long it would take to get that stink out of porous firebrick .

One curing method is to start with smaller, increasing to larger, wood fires to cure the dome. No matter how small of a wood fire is started in a WFO, there is a direct flame impingement on at least the apex of the dome. This is uneven heating on uncured masonry.

This may be just my opinion but, I gathered from Doug's technique that, you want to heat the dome as evenly as possible to just a little above the boiling point of water. And keep it there until the outside of the insulated dome is no longer warm to the touch. Once the water has been driven out, the outside of the insulation layer should be almost to ambient temperature. The briquettes offer a milder way of slowly bringing the dome to this stage.

Now is the time to start a small wood fire in the oven and keep adding wood until that dome clears .
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  #19  
Old 02-14-2013, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Thanks for the clarification.
Charcoal type fuels available here are basically two types.

1) Those that come in boxes and appear to be short chunks of wood that have been heated to some high temp w/o oxygen in the manufacture process.

2) A bio-fuel type of charcoal that looks like a thick button- about 4" in diameter, 2" thick with some holes in it. Must be made in some high pressure extrusion process.

These are the standards- Briquettes or heat beads can be found but not every "home center or hardware store" carries them. Takes a little more searching and "asking the right questions"!

Lots of things to mull over... Outdoor- Daytime and night temperatures are below freezing but not every day. It would take a lot of attention to maintain a temperature above the boiling point for water for an extended period of time!

Right now, the dome is quite cool to the touch.. even though the ambient temperature is steady. Must be drying nicely--cooling sensation the result of evaporation..

I have considered just using a fan to move the air, but for now...things are on hold until I can determine if an initial set--water retention is required. The dome is draped in plastic.
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  #20  
Old 02-14-2013, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Don't use chunk charcoal, that which you described in option 1. It burns way to hot for the initial curing.
I don't know anything about bio-fuels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikku View Post
Thanks for the clarification.
Charcoal type fuels available here are basically two types.

1) Those that come in boxes and appear to be short chunks of wood that have been heated to some high temp w/o oxygen in the manufacture process.

2) A bio-fuel type of charcoal that looks like a thick button- about 4" in diameter, 2" thick with some holes in it. Must be made in some high pressure extrusion process.

These are the standards- Briquettes or heat beads can be found but not every "home center or hardware store" carries them. Takes a little more searching and "asking the right questions"!

Lots of things to mull over... Outdoor- Daytime and night temperatures are below freezing but not every day. It would take a lot of attention to maintain a temperature above the boiling point for water for an extended period of time!

Right now, the dome is quite cool to the touch.. even though the ambient temperature is steady. Must be drying nicely--cooling sensation the result of evaporation..

I have considered just using a fan to move the air, but for now...things are on hold until I can determine if an initial set--water retention is required. The dome is draped in plastic.
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