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  #111  
Old 02-26-2013, 11:09 AM
Laurentius's Avatar
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Hi Mikku,

I'm curious? Why didn't you try the technique that the owner prescribed first, since he was more familiar with Oya-stone than you?
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  #112  
Old 02-26-2013, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

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Originally Posted by Laurentius View Post
Hi Mikku,

I'm curious? Why didn't you try the technique that the owner prescribed first, since he was more familiar with Oya-stone than you?
I gather information and advice from many sources. In the end, I have to judge the course to take. In this instance, the owner gave me information that told me more of the character of the stone, but that I observed on my own. His experience is from "watching someone else" in a similar situation.

The advice I was following was from "Stonecutter". His advice is based on "experiencing doing"! I followed consistencies in both and ruled out "dongo balls" because I felt I would get better adhesion with a notched trowel.

I can imagine "dongo balls" working very well for setting slabs of granite on a vertical surface.. I have seen this when doing demolition in schools or banks that used granite. Also "dongo balls" would work for leveling stone that was not saw cut to the same thickness.

Does any of this make sense to you and satisfy your curiosity?

Thanks for your continued interest in this project.

BTW, this same owner--has his own mobil pizza oven that is KD. He has a metal stand that hold firebricks, slabs of oya stone to form shelves. It has two chambers, a lower for the fire--upper for pizza baking. No insulation, no chimney, no doors. He thinks that insulation is an "expensive option", that making the oven walls thick makes the entire oven "non-portable", and that everything I have done so far is "over spec".

He has strong opinions on how things should be done--same guy who told me repeatedly for several years--no "Lime" in Japan!

So I listen, then sort through what I've heard, and do what my gut says.
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  #113  
Old 02-26-2013, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

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Originally Posted by mikku View Post
I can imagine "dongo balls" working very well for setting slabs of granite on a vertical surface.. I have seen this when doing demolition in schools or banks that used granite.
No way, you have really seen this method with "dongo balls" applied in a vertical application with cementitious material? I have seen that done with epoxy but never, ever with anything else. I have set big slate and schist panels ( 3.5' x4.5'x 1.25") with a heavily modified mortar, which was applied much like thin-set. But blobs of mortar here and there? That would be considered a hack job, and it would never fly...at least no place I have ever worked. Additionally, it would never last anywhere there is a freeze thaw.
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  #114  
Old 02-26-2013, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

The place I saw stone attached (with what?) I do not know, but resembled dongo balls was on granite wainscot and counter areas in an old bank that was being remodeled. There were also some wires involved. We were trying to salvage some of the stone pieces. The bank was built in the late 1800's and we were doing our salvage in late 1990's. Stone was stuck to brick walls that were plaster finished inside, I do not remember the way the counters were made. Lobby floors were those octogon white tile, some ceilings were tin stampings, lots of ornate oak woodwork for tellers cage trim, private offices etc.

The easy source for slab granite were the toilet partitions, but my wife would not allow me to salvage those..? Something with cleanliness issues??? I thought that bleach can clean any surface to a sanitary state!! But still a big "NO"!

I take from your comment, you do not think much of "dongo balls" anywhere?
I was planning to use the "thinset" to re-do the arch assembly. The stone has been soaking since yesterday... Actually in its natural state underground it is in the water table. Plan to mortar the joints and let them sit covered with plastic for a few days then uncovered until they dry out again.

Any comments?
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  #115  
Old 02-26-2013, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikku View Post
The place I saw stone attached (with what?) I do not know, but resembled dongo balls was on granite wainscot and counter areas in an old bank that was being remodeled. There were also some wires involved. We were trying to salvage some of the stone pieces. The bank was built in the late 1800's and we were doing our salvage in late 1990's. Stone was stuck to brick walls that were plaster finished inside, I do not remember the way the counters were made. Lobby floors were those octogon white tile, some ceilings were tin stampings, lots of ornate oak woodwork for tellers cage trim, private offices etc.

The easy source for slab granite were the toilet partitions, but my wife would not allow me to salvage those..? Something with cleanliness issues??? I thought that bleach can clean any surface to a sanitary state!! But still a big "NO"!

I take from your comment, you do not think much of "dongo balls" anywhere?
I was planning to use the "thinset" to re-do the arch assembly. The stone has been soaking since yesterday... Actually in its natural state underground it is in the water table. Plan to mortar the joints and let them sit covered with plastic for a few days then uncovered until they dry out again.

Any comments?
Bummer about the slabs...I think you should have said they came from the lobby or something.

Wires were involved...ah ha. Mechanical anchors there, so they don't have to rely on a mechanical bond with the setting material..acceptable practice, but blobs of mortar behind stone, mechanical bond or not, is still a sucky parctice in severe weather areas. Voids behind stone are a moisture collection area, leading to efflorescence, spalling...failure. But it sounds like it has held up ok there, so I guess that method is fine for that area.

Your posts are in need of some pictures...I would like to see the stone. Thinset for the arch...to adhere it to the vent or something? Thin-set should work great if the substrate is sound, and the stone doesn't exceed some kind of vertical weight limitation...which this light stone probably won't.
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  #116  
Old 02-26-2013, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

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I take from your comment, you do not think much of "dongo balls" anywhere
Outside - Not for me, ever.

Inside - I see no problem horizontally...issues vertically without mechanical anchors.
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  #117  
Old 02-26-2013, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

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Originally Posted by stonecutter View Post
Bummer about the slabs...I think you should have said they came from the lobby or something.

Wires were involved...ah ha. Mechanical anchors there, so they don't have to rely on a mechanical bond with the setting material..acceptable practice, but blobs of mortar behind stone, mechanical bond or not, is still a sucky parctice in severe weather areas. Voids behind stone are a moisture collection area, leading to efflorescence, spalling...failure. But it sounds like it has held up ok there, so I guess that method is fine for that area.

Your posts are in need of some pictures...I would like to see the stone. Thinset for the arch...to adhere it to the vent or something? Thin-set should work great if the substrate is sound, and the stone doesn't exceed some kind of vertical weight limitation...which this light stone probably won't.
There are three pictures: First is how it looked the day before yesterday.
Second is after cleaning old mortar off/soaking and re-apply thinset.
Third is covered back up with plastic for a few days for slow dry.

Yesterday, I also put a skim coating of thinset to the exposed surface of pericrete surrounding oven opening and covered with plastic. My thoughts that the skim coat would give the pericrete a broader surface to bond --when I actually put stone arch in place (1 Piece).

Was thinking prior to attaching the arch, I would skimcoat the back of the stone as well.

Eventually, the only portion exposed of the arch would be the face. The render and stucco would wrap around the edge to anchor it permanently to the oven.

This stone will also serve as the recess for an outer "blast door" for fire up sequence.

Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.-img_2613a.jpg

Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.-img_2618a.jpg

Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.-img_2619a.jpg

The thinset that squeezed out of the joint, I troweled off, then rubbed stone dust into the surface. I do not know how permanent it will be but it does dry very similar to the color of the stone.
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  #118  
Old 02-26-2013, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Home brew concrete and cast-in-place concrete.

[QUOTE=stonecutter;146540]Bummer about the slabs...I think you should have said they came from the lobby or something.

You might be able to get away with that...but I get the 4th degree...on anything I haul home.

I am a crummy lier too, that's why no card games either.

If she were rolling out pie crust on one of the "perfect sized pieces" that had been mounted near the urinals! --Then she ask...Where did this nice stone come from??? I'd spill the beans! Me, stone, piecrust would all fly out the door, and wouldn't have baked goods for a verrrrry loooooooong time!

Very tough cookie for someone tipping just over 100 pounds!
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