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  #31  
Old 12-24-2013, 03:41 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Kiryu City, Japan
Posts: 15
Default Re: Fireclay in Japan

Hello again,

We'll the party was successful, three turkey's, several loaves of bread and quite a few pizzas.

The sandbag experiment was almost a complete flop. We failed to calculate dynamically for the efficiency of the vermiculite as insulation. After the mass so the bricks and fire clay heated up, the bags started melting. The vermiculite poured out onto the ground. Quite a bit stayed on the dome, though. For the turkeys, we built a fire on one side of the dome and placed half a dozen firebricks through the center of the dome and slid the turkeys in on the other side. In about two hours, we had three nicely done turkeys. After letting them settle for about a half an hour, my son carved them. Suberb!
Dann
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  #32  
Old 12-24-2013, 01:12 PM
Laborer
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Queensland Australia
Posts: 90
Default Re: Fireclay in Japan

Should have read the reply from Mikku
Laurentius likes this.
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  #33  
Old 12-25-2013, 03:25 AM
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tochigi Prefecture, Japan
Posts: 620
Default Re: Fireclay in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by khpizzaovenguy View Post
Hello again,

We'll the party was successful, three turkey's, several loaves of bread and quite a few pizzas.

The sandbag experiment was almost a complete flop. We failed to calculate dynamically for the efficiency of the vermiculite as insulation. After the mass so the bricks and fire clay heated up, the bags started melting. The vermiculite poured out onto the ground. Quite a bit stayed on the dome, though. For the turkeys, we built a fire on one side of the dome and placed half a dozen firebricks through the center of the dome and slid the turkeys in on the other side. In about two hours, we had three nicely done turkeys. After letting them settle for about a half an hour, my son carved them. Suberb!
Dann
Glad to hear the party turned out well. You never said how you were going to do the bread...

Since you had some problem with the plastic sand bags, there is something else that I have experienced with other hot objects..

A few years ago, I was operating a compactor with a gasoline engine on it. It began to rain and I quickly threw one of those "blue tarps" that you can buy anywhere for very cheap. The muffler was still very hot and the tarp melted onto the muffler. Now even two years later, when I use the compactor there is always a residual odor of burning plastic. I have to look around to see if something is on fire, but then I realize it is the residual plastic on the muffler.

So.... you should be very careful to remove as much plastic (if melted onto your dome)--even if it requires using a wire wheel on an angle grinder to get it off... OR I think that you will have the smell of melting plastic linger for a very long time!

I would have been much better off letting the compactor get a little wet! The engine was still very warm, other objects hot... what little rain that hit it would have quickly evaporated and I would not have this sweet stink every time I start the engine.

So now that the Christmas party is behind you, what is the big plan for the "New Years" baking, roasting, activities for the WFO?
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  #34  
Old 12-25-2013, 04:22 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Kiryu City, Japan
Posts: 15
Default Re: Fireclay in Japan

At this time, no plans for the oven during the NY holidays. We had over 40 people here and are still recovering. also, we have to spend some time in Tokyo with family and friends.

After returning we will begin cleaning the outside of the dome and putting on the vermiculite. We are also planning to add a BBQ grill to one side of the oven.

Also, I am working on my workshop so I can open my DIY classes in April.

Dann
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  #35  
Old 12-25-2013, 05:46 AM
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tochigi Prefecture, Japan
Posts: 620
Default Re: Fireclay in Japan

I know absolutely nothing about fireclay and sand but can you explain something?

When you mix fireclay and sand, it is only a kind of silt and sand ... (and river sand is has rounded edges rather than angular) right?

Does the heating of your WFO get hot enough to turn that mixture into something like pottery? Or is the temperature too low so that it is only clay and sand ...thus making it susceptible to damage from normal rainfall and water intrusion?

And, if it turns into a type of pottery, then why use firebrick at all in the construction of a WFO---instead only use the sand and fireclay?

Maybe a dumb question, but other builders use some kind of a homebrew with fireclay, lime, Portland cement, sand and whatever.... I don't know!

How about enlightening me?

I chose to use a castable product manufactured by Asahi that had special characteristics that withstood high temperatures and set up quickly. When I calculated the volume cost of the castable vs firebrick, the cost was virtually the same--so I cast everything.

Item #2: What kind of DIY classes will you be teaching?
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  #36  
Old 12-26-2013, 04:10 PM
Serf
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Kiryu City, Japan
Posts: 15
Default Re: Fireclay in Japan

I'm not completely sure of the fireclay composition, but in the oven when the temp reaches about 600 C, the fireclay begins to fuse. The fire brick also do the same, but only for a couple of mm into the body. At long exposures to very heat, say 1200+ C, the entire mass will turn ceramic. It is hard to get that kind of heat in the oven. My pottery friend uses firebrick and fireclay in his kiln. He raises the temp to over 1350 C for several days to make pottery. The interior of the kiln looks like greenish glass, but it's only a few mm thick.

My DIY classes will focus on helping people learn basic tool usage, common safety practices and creating (relatively) simple projects of their own design for their own needs. I will be showing the students some of my own work in progress as examples. I plan to conduct classes in a mix of Japaneae and English for those who wish to expand their language abilities.

Dann

P.S. I am working on getting photos ready to post here. dg
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  #37  
Old 12-26-2013, 08:33 PM
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tochigi Prefecture, Japan
Posts: 620
Default Re: Fireclay in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by khpizzaovenguy View Post
I'm not completely sure of the fireclay composition, but in the oven when the temp reaches about 600 C, the fireclay begins to fuse. The fire brick also do the same, but only for a couple of mm into the body. At long exposures to very heat, say 1200+ C, the entire mass will turn ceramic. It is hard to get that kind of heat in the oven. My pottery friend uses firebrick and fireclay in his kiln. He raises the temp to over 1350 C for several days to make pottery. The interior of the kiln looks like greenish glass, but it's only a few mm thick.

My DIY classes will focus on helping people learn basic tool usage, common safety practices and creating (relatively) simple projects of their own design for their own needs. I will be showing the students some of my own work in progress as examples. I plan to conduct classes in a mix of Japaneae and English for those who wish to expand their language abilities.

Dann

P.S. I am working on getting photos ready to post here. dg

I am surprised that more people have not checked in on your build. A big part of it is "photos" --seeing something helps with the understanding part.

Davids is an educator with a whole lot of side activities, Brickie is a lifelong mason, oven builder, author, and one time furniture maker. There are a lot of other talented people who enjoy preparing almost anything in their ovens...some specializing in bread making only.

It sounds like you will be able to blend your hobbies and teaching background into something profitable and enjoyable.

Most Japanese that I encounter have a very good background in English grammar and composition but lack the confidence to converse --maybe the casual atmosphere of DIY projects will allow them to learn easily. The acceptable system of teaching English in public schools seems to be a failure.

Only thing I remember of ceramics is from high school art class--made an ashtray... With today's non smoking policies, that work of art would have warranted an "F".
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  #38  
Old 12-29-2013, 03:14 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Kiryu City, Japan
Posts: 15
Default Re: Fireclay in Japan

Hello,

As mentioned above, I am attaching a photo giving a rear view of the oven after the chimney was completely installed. No insulation on it at the time. Eventually therehwill be partial walls on three sides.

Dann
Attached Thumbnails
Fireclay in Japan-image.jpg  
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  #39  
Old 12-29-2013, 03:17 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Kiryu City, Japan
Posts: 15
Default Re: Fireclay in Japan

Well, it looks like I still have some fiddling to do. The photo in the previous post so upside down!?

Dann
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  #40  
Old 12-29-2013, 11:37 AM
david s's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Townsville, Nth Queensland,Australia
Posts: 4,824
Default Re: Fireclay in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikku View Post
I know absolutely nothing about fireclay and sand but can you explain something?

When you mix fireclay and sand, it is only a kind of silt and sand ... (and river sand is has rounded edges rather than angular) right?

Does the heating of your WFO get hot enough to turn that mixture into something like pottery? Or is the temperature too low so that it is only clay and sand ...thus making it susceptible to damage from normal rainfall and water intrusion?

And, if it turns into a type of pottery, then why use firebrick at all in the construction of a WFO---instead only use the sand and fireclay?

Maybe a dumb question, but other builders use some kind of a homebrew with fireclay, lime, Portland cement, sand and whatever.... I don't know!

How about enlightening me?

I chose to use a castable product manufactured by Asahi that had special characteristics that withstood high temperatures and set up quickly. When I calculated the volume cost of the castable vs firebrick, the cost was virtually the same--so I cast everything.

Item #2: What kind of DIY classes will you be teaching?
Clay turns permanent at 573 C and anything north of that will make it harder. This process is called the alpha change or sintering. This sudden change needs to be done very slowly as rapid expansion takes place at around these temps. The firing schedule of your castable provided by the manufacturer should confirm this. Unfortunately it is not possible to do this with wood. The danger zone is actually 500 -650 C and the crown of the dome and other parts of the oven at the surface is likely to go in and out of this temp range quite quickly, probably every time the oven is fired. Fire bricks are fired slowly through this range and well beyond, up to much higher temperatures making them stronger and more stable.

Last edited by david s; 12-29-2013 at 11:42 AM.
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