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Faith In Virginia 03-16-2012 07:19 PM

White Oven
I've been thinking of a white oven. I'm looking for plans and the particulars of building one. Can anyone point me in the right direction.

Thanks Faith

brickie in oz 03-16-2012 07:47 PM

Re: White Oven
I should imagine it would be fairly simple to build, its an oven within an oven so the hot gasses can flow around the inner oven.

Opening at the front underneath and a flue exiting at the front on top. :)

Faith In Virginia 03-16-2012 08:37 PM

Re: White Oven
That's what I was so many that come here to build a pizza oven it's all so simple at first get the rest of the story. So I would like to see some plans and assess the good and the bad that comes with it. I would like to build off what is already known about white ovens.

Had a great batch of bread today. Between my new mixer and proofer I've noticed much improvement in my bread. The nice thing is that by controlling proofing temperature and humidity I can predict when my sourdough will be ready and that really helps with oven timing.

Faith In Virginia 03-17-2012 04:52 AM

Re: White Oven
More thoughts on what I'm thinking. You all know I make bread so I was thinking that a way to recharge the oven without a new fire in the oven chamber. I'm thinking a white oven would be very inefficient and burn gobs of wood and take a long time to heat. There is another oven type that has the burn box separate from the oven chamber but that is not great for bread because you want to trap the moisture coming off the bread while baking. So perhaps a hy-bread (Pun intended). I think the construction should take into considerations of flow of gasses from the oven chamber and oven masses in what area as well as what needs insulation if you have a more constant heat source. Any thoughts

Dmendo 03-17-2012 06:49 AM

Re: White Oven
Hi Faith, I'm thinking in a kind of black oven and been investigating a lot of published info about the matter. Basically is the same but the white oven avoids combustion gases to be in contact with the baking chamber. So you have to make two ovens, one inside the other. The external ones can be made of isolating refractory bricks or boards (as the kilns uses ceramic fibers in the fire side). You can get a lot of info in the masonry heaters association (Fornobravo is member of them): The Masonry Heater Association Home Page - Information on masonry heaters, manufacturers, and masonry heater builders
Masonry Stove Builders - masonry heater manufacturers
All the ways, for white opperation I reach the conclussion that the most efficient way to do it is starting from the Tepluska oven design and adapt it for a white opperation. A lot of info about this kind of oven:
Krestianskaya Teplushka - Pyromasse
Although the Teplushka concept is intended for dual purpose oven plus masonry heater, is clear it can be adapted for only oven purpose isolating all around.

shuboyje 03-17-2012 09:10 AM

Re: White Oven
One thing that make designing a white oven much harder then it would seem is the issue of diverging flows that was bought up in this thread:

To get around this you would have to route all the gases up to the top of the oven, then have them diverge into different paths and descend down over the oven and converge back into a central flue and go up and out. Would be pretty complex.

For your goal I would personally look into a Guillard Oven. Easier to build, gets to higher temperature then white ovens from my understanding, and you can easily and cleanly re-fire it between batches as needed.

SCChris 04-06-2012 09:22 AM

Re: White Oven
Faith, I'm just curious, how much bread do you want to bake at a time, and how many bake runs?


Faith In Virginia 04-06-2012 02:30 PM

Re: White Oven
I have no idea!!! LOL What I do know is that in my 42" Pompeii with 7.5 inch of thermal mass in the walls and floor looses quite a bit of energy when I put in 18 lbs of cold wet dough. So after two runs of dough my temp starts to drop and I'm down to lower temp baking and no longer have that supercharged effect for significant oven spring and that expected crust. Loading bread at temps above 550 burns the outside and in inside is not cooked. Temps in the 425 range takes longer for the bread to bake and the crust is not as dark or crispy. So I was thinking of an oven that could be recharged without having to start a new fire in the box. I have time before I would start building one so for now I'm just kicking tires. Perhaps I'll just have a second oven. But if you have any ideas I'm ready to kick them around for consideration.

I've also been thinking of a quazi white oven where you have a secondary fire box and when you need to recharge the oven you could move some dampers and direct the hot gasses through the interior of the oven. Then shut them all back when your at your desired temp.

Also thanks Dmendo and Shuboyje your links were great and gave me lots to think about.

brickie in oz 04-06-2012 02:56 PM

Re: White Oven

Originally Posted by Faith In Virginia (Post 129718)

I've also been thinking of a quazi white oven where you have a secondary fire box and when you need to recharge the oven you could move some dampers and direct the hot gasses through the interior of the oven. Then shut them all back when your at your desired temp.

I dont think Ive seen your build pics, if I have Ive forgotten it. :o

Is there some way you could light a fire underneath your hearth at the moment, or is it all insulated?

SCChris 04-06-2012 04:21 PM

Re: White Oven
Interesting, If you load at 500F for the first load where do you end up after allowing the oven to equalize? What are your oven floor temps for your second round of baking? What I'm wondering is if you can add more mass in your floor and / or more insulation around the oven that would give you baking time?


PS you need a Max Poilane oven in miniature.. I think I remember seeing one of these in action and that it was a white oven.

Nope it's a black oven. At 2:34 in the video you see a cast iron fire directing flue removed and a vessel of water closing off the oven from the fire. Really interesting oven design.

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