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  #11  
Old 03-06-2014, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one

If ever a situation called for a cast oven, it'd be yours, I reckon.
If you can get some castable refractory, make a mould to your preferred shape and cast yourself a dome maybe 50mm or so thick.

In your situation (building it into your kitchen inside your home) I reckon you should err on the side of caution and use a commercial formulation rather than a homebrew.

Put it in and fill as much space with insulation as you can.


I've seen some incredibly disturbing photos of the Syrian crisis.
There must be a way the Arab world could step in and stop it.
I hope all goes well for you.

BTW, where do you get firewood? I'm suppose it is just a perception thing, but there never seems to be many trees in the previously mentioned photos.
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  #12  
Old 03-06-2014, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one

Hi wotavidone
Thanks for your kind wishes. You are right. This has to be stopped, but easier said than done.
I don't know much about the castable refractory. Is it like a mix that you can just add water to it and shape it in molds? Can it be homemade if I fail to find it?
I live in a small town and we have a garden and farmlands. This is not an apartment. I can get wood easily. I just want my indoor oven to be efficient, clean and CLASSIC. I'm planning to build another cheap one in the garden that is wood fired.
Cheers.
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2014, 04:52 AM
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Default Re: Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one

Commercial castables are generally bagged products that you mix with water.
I doubt it would be a good idea to try and cast the oven in place over a sand dome. The mess might make you a touch unpopular with your wife.
So you'd need to be making a mould to something approaching the dimensions you drew.

For castable, you have perhaps three choices.

Some people have used the 3 sand, 1 cement, 1 lime, 1 fireclay homebrew to make domes, most notably michelevit's "Brickless oven on a shoestring"
Homebrew isn't really a refractory, but his oven seems to be lasting well, and dozens of builders have used it to hold their brick ovens together.
Mine (brick with homebrew mortar) hasn't fallen down yet, but I reckon that, since it is inside and therefore oven failure is more than just an inconvenience, you should consider a more "conventional" mix.

For example, Abulsamman in Jordan, to name but one builder, has made an oven from calcium aluminate cement (ciment fondue) and aggregates.

https://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f43...ild-17455.html
Calcium aluminate is much more heat resistant than Portland cement.

If you can get a commercial castable, that is probably the best. But be sure your supplier knows it is for a "low" temperature application. No point getting one that needs to be fired to over 1000C. You may never cure it. As with cement fondue, it would be very important to follow the instructions, especially with regard to the amount of water, or the result won't be very good.
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  #14  
Old 03-08-2014, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one

Thank you wotavidone for the clarifications. I have been hearing about homebrew and thinking that it is the same mix you pointed to (portland cement, lime, fireclay, sand), but I can understand from you that it is not? What is homebrew then? and what is the minimum thickness I can have for my cast oven?
Cheers.
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  #15  
Old 03-14-2014, 12:04 AM
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Default Re: Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one

Hi,

This is my oven removed entirely waiting to be reconstructed. The opening of the oven exhaust is right behind the oven (see the yellow arrow in the picture). Any suggestions regarding the chimney so a proper air draw can be achieved without the help of a ventilating fan, and of course without making the oven ugly ?

Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one-chimney-opening.jpg
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  #16  
Old 03-14-2014, 02:30 AM
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Unhappy Re: Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one

Quote:
Originally Posted by v12spirit View Post
Thank you wotavidone for the clarifications. I have been hearing about homebrew and thinking that it is the same mix you pointed to (portland cement, lime, fireclay, sand), but I can understand from you that it is not? What is homebrew then? and what is the minimum thickness I can have for my cast oven?
Cheers.
Homebrew is the sand cement lime and clay. It is just that it isn't refractory in the sense that a refractory is formulated to perform at temperatures exceeding 1000C.
Thickness is a trade between thermal mass v quick heat-up. I dunno. If I was making one from homebrew I guess I'd try 3 to 4 inches, maybe, because I think the homebrew is less dense than a commercial castable.

Last edited by wotavidone; 03-14-2014 at 02:34 AM.
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  #17  
Old 04-15-2014, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one

Hi all,
Here is my final plan:
I would just remind that I had two choices; brick and steel, and that I wanted a fast heat up time.
1- The idea of doing all the cooking inside a BRICK oven was excluded because of the lack of a proof for its vitality (see my previous LONG boring post on this thread if interested).
2- I was lucky to find a thicker (2 mm thick)“flat dome” (A “flat dome” is a steel flat dome used for making large tortilla bread as mentioned in the second post herein). This is the thickest one I could find. I will definitely use it in my build. Thus, I will use STEEL in my build. I will use a 2 mm thick steel for the rest of the build.
3- I have not decided yet how some thermal mass will be added; lining the steel build with bricks or cladding it. That will be decided when I have the steel build made.
I decided to build a cardboard model before cutting the steel just to make sure that my design can be applied in practice, and I got good results. The model is combined of 6 pieces: the hearth, the dome, three pieces integrating into the side walls, and a small piece over the door to ensure that the golden ratio of the door height is achieved.
Here is an explanation of the cardboard model build:
Two cardboard discs over one another; The lower (bigger) one resembles the hearth, and the upper (smaller) one resembles the flat dome:
Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one-dome-over-hearth.jpg
The side walls are made up of an angle sector (see my second post) That can be further divided into identical smaller angle sectors for convenience. I choose three identical ones:
Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one-three-thirds-side-area.jpg
Building the card board model:
Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one-building-cardboard-model.jpg
side area integrated:
Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one-side-area-integrated.jpg
dome installed:
Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one-cardboard-model-finished.jpg
model finished (the golden ration piece is added:
Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one-model-finished.jpg

Last edited by v12spirit; 04-15-2014 at 10:46 PM.
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  #18  
Old 04-15-2014, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one

The machine prevents uploading more than 6 pics/post.
Here is the small piece achieving the golden ratio. It is just part of the angle sector but cut underneath to form the oven opening:
Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one-golden-ratio-piece.jpg
Here is the thick flat dome. It is used in restaurants and can withstand high temperatures and I was told that it may out-date my lifetime :
Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one-thicker-flat-dome.jpg

Last edited by v12spirit; 04-15-2014 at 11:05 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-16-2014, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one

Looks like you have given this some thought and are on a roll. This promises to be interesting. All the best with your build.
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  #20  
Old 04-16-2014, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: Brick oven reconstructed to a steel one

Thanks Steve for your encouragement.
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