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-   -   Crispy Chewy Pizza Dough (http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f41/crispy-chewy-pizza-dough-14415.html)

Grimaldi 09-20-2010 12:33 PM

Crispy Chewy Pizza Dough
 
Looks like a nice crust. I haven't been able to get my dough this pliable and thin, yet.

http://how2heroes.com/videos/entrees...a-dough#/share

texassourdough 09-21-2010 06:42 AM

Re: Crispy Chewy Pizza Dough
 
While I would suspect newer pizzaiolis would find this useful I have a mixed reaction to it. None are critical but I find them troublesome for what appears to be a professional.

The first phase should not be called making a "starter dough" which confuses his actions with making a sourdough starter which is commonly simply referred to as starter. What he is making is more properly called a sponge.

His description of gluten and how it works is mangled and inconsistent. He says that the alignment of the gluten is what lets it stretch. This is wrong, it is the fact it is not alighned that makes it stretcheable. As it aligns it gets tougher and stronger (much like when you pull on a piece of plastic and it gets thinner and stronger.) Eventually the gluten can/will get so aligned the dough tears instead of stretching.

I have no problems with the general approach. It is fine. It works. It doesn't take much involvement so it is good with people who want minimal personal time involved.

He mentions proofing the ball for 4 hours and later has a graphic about 24 hour retarding. The latter is far preferable for flavor.

His balling technique is good but his dough is really dry. Looks like he is using bread flour at about 60% hydration - maybe less. Given the dryness I don't think he should be adding so much flour! The dough is clearly workable without extra flour. (Or it is too undermixed/underkneaded and has major wet spots in the dough!)

In forming the pizza from the ball he starts by pressing in the middle. Most of us find that that approach tends to create thin spots. Yes the center needs pressing down some but most find it better to do the outer area first and finish by thinning the center (the cross profile before the finish will look like a classic, thin "flying saucer" profile with a hump in the center. Otherwise, I use much the same basic technique, using a sheet pan with flour to form my pies. The dryness of his dough shows up again in the forming. Note how rubbery the pie looks - it keeps bouncing back. This is a bit inconsistent with the long proofing period and with the minimal mixing. Something feels wrong about the behaviour of the dough and his description of how he made it! It seems pretty clear that he is using bread flour (which is why he is concerned about it being tough - but his stretchy pie that keeps bouncing back is likely to be tough. I find all that weird!)

The approach he uses (sponge first, dough second) probably has advantages if you want to make low hydration dough. At 65 percent hydration there is little/no reason in my experience to stage the dough in multiple steps.

What he does will work and the demo will probably help those of you who are struggling. But don't let his inconsistencies and errors confuse you.
Jay

Grimaldi 09-21-2010 06:58 PM

Re: Crispy Chewy Pizza Dough
 
Thanks for taking the time to critique the techniques and terminology used in the video, Texassourdough. What he is saying in video and what they do at the pizzeria may be two different things?

BTW, is there anywhere around SA to buy Italian 00 flour? I've been using an organic AP flour from Costco with reasonable success, but I'm ready to try the 00.

texassourdough 09-22-2010 06:22 PM

Re: Crispy Chewy Pizza Dough
 
Where are you located Grimaldi?

I am not aware of any commercial sources available at retail but I do know how to get it. We may need to communicate off-line...

Grimaldi 09-23-2010 06:15 AM

Re: Crispy Chewy Pizza Dough
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by texassourdough (Post 99636)
Where are you located Grimaldi?

I am not aware of any commercial sources available at retail but I do know how to get it. We may need to communicate off-line...

Boerne.

PM me with details about how to get the elusive 00. ;)

andremoraes 09-24-2010 03:13 PM

Re: Crispy Chewy Pizza Dough
 
me too, the one from Costco it's also what I used before, I'm in Pearland, TX close to Houston, by the way, I don't have a forno yet. I'm using a green egg. I wonder if you guys build you own and how difficult it's for someone that never build anything but r/c planes and lego before ;-)
should I hire someone to do it, know anyone?

dmun 09-24-2010 04:15 PM

Re: Crispy Chewy Pizza Dough
 
Quote:

I wonder if you guys build you own and how difficult it's for someone that never build anything but r/c planes and lego before
That's the situation with a lot of us. It's not as simple as lego's but if you are comfortable with a bit of heavy lifting there's nothing all that difficult about building a dome.

If I were to do it again, I'd get someone to help with the physically difficult stuff, like pouring slabs and laying up block, but i'd still build the oven myself.

For one thing, not everyone claiming to be an oven builder has actual experience. We've heard horror stories about contractors who thought that things like insulation and refractory mortar were a waste of money.

The other thing is that the project is probably 75% or 80% labor, and supplying that yourself brings the cost of a brick oven out of the stratosphere. There's the added point that you get a certain pride of ownership if it's your own trowel that's laid it up.

Tscarborough 09-24-2010 07:04 PM

Re: Crispy Chewy Pizza Dough
 
Central Market and Fiesta both carry Caputo 00 red bag, but expect to pay about 3 times what it is worth. I tried it several times, but your basic King Arthur bread flour works just as well at 30% of the price. For that matter, all most any AP flour makes a crust that all but the most affected will love.

It is more important to ferment the dough, and if you really want a crispy AND chewy dough, use 10-25% semolina flour. Toothsome is the word that most describes semolina dough. Lots of spring and rise, but it has that crunch on the surface.

PrestonEhome 10-05-2010 12:36 AM

Re: Crispy Chewy Pizza Dough
 
Thanks for taking the time to critique the techniques and terminology used in the video, Texassourdough. What he is saying in video and what they do at the pizzeria may be two different things?

andremoraes 10-05-2010 05:26 PM

Re: Crispy Chewy Pizza Dough
 
I bought the flour caputo 00

but like you said before, the costco organic flour with semolina works good and it's cheaper

But again, I'm just trying to have fun, not looking for the magic perfect pizza


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