#31  
Old 09-24-2009, 04:43 AM
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Default Re: Outdoor sink

Is it too late to dig a dry well under the sink, or near it ?
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  #32  
Old 09-24-2009, 05:01 AM
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Default Re: Outdoor sink

Technical and (probably) unimportant nitpik: water from a sink is blackwater. Lavatories, washing machines and bathtubs are greywater: toilets and sinks are blackwater.

None of which matters since you won't be using it for heavy dishwashing or food prep the way you would a kitchen sink.

This has been a semi-useless public service announcement (semi because in the US that kind of distinction can cause massive headaches and in some states can make the health department very not happy with you).
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  #33  
Old 09-24-2009, 09:43 AM
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Default Re: Outdoor sink

In a more water-waste conscious society we would make distinctions between water from sewage, and graywater from handwashing, etc., which can be used for things like lawn and garden watering. (plants don't mind soap) I'm told that building departments can erect big obstacles to reusing gray water. In a lot of older cities, they don't ever separate sewage and storm run-off.

But for all practical purposes, you can drain your outdoor kitchen sink into a french drain without difficulty.
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  #34  
Old 09-24-2009, 05:11 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Outdoor sink

To add a little to the debate, my outdoor kitchen sink is used EVERY TIME that we have a function/activity. The whole purpose of building it was not just to add convenience to the oven but to get the whole activity out of the hose kitchen and out with the friends and guests.
I have a slab of black granite that I put over one side of the sink and drainer to roll out and prepare the dough balls, still leaving the larger sink bowl free for rinsing/washing. Yes it was very easy and convenient to connect to the sewer which passes directly under the sink with an inspection point under the cupboards BUT I would have even looked further to make it all work. I still am not connected to running hot water but a bucket from the house kitchen or laundry 20 feet away solves that problem.
The wife is much happier and the house is kept much cleaner and tidier with the outdoor sink.

Neill
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  #35  
Old 09-24-2009, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Outdoor sink

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmun View Post
In a more water-waste conscious society we would make distinctions between water from sewage, and graywater from handwashing, etc., which can be used for things like lawn and garden watering. (plants don't mind soap) I'm told that building departments can erect big obstacles to reusing gray water. In a lot of older cities, they don't ever separate sewage and storm run-off.

But for all practical purposes, you can drain your outdoor kitchen sink into a french drain without difficulty.
Hi,

I completely agree with you about the practicality - it's not a major concern (unless the health department says otherwise). And there was a time when I would have agreed with you about the blackwater distinction, but there is a logic to calling kitchen sink water blackwater. It's not the soap; it's the organics. In addition to vegetable scraps, people often put meat scraps down the drain (and a whole host of other junk as well). Meat, and even vegetables, present problems that phosphates don't - which is why sinks are designated as blackwater. It is not as dangerous as septic water, but it's not as safe as regular graywater either.

I'm not sure I fully agree with their logic, but I do see their point. Maybe someday someone will come up with a safe home blackwater recycling system.

<shrug>
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  #36  
Old 09-25-2009, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: Outdoor sink

Quote:
Meat, and even vegetables, present problems that phosphates don't - which is why sinks are designated as blackwater. It is not as dangerous as septic water, but it's not as safe as regular graywater either.
would solving this problem be as simple as pouring Bleach down the drain after a nights use... ? I understand bleach kills most anything, not sure though about its effects on the enviornment...

Mark
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  #37  
Old 09-25-2009, 06:18 AM
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Default Re: Outdoor sink

It probably wouldn't. The trouble starts with decay and bleach won't stop that. Also, a French (or Freedom if you're still ticked off with the French) drain is gravity fed and won't necessarily flush heavy solids all the way down. This could get icky fast with large solids. And if you're ending the drain in the garden bleach does nasty things to plants (say 'herbicide' ).

You'd have a really clean sink drain, though.
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Last edited by Archena; 09-25-2009 at 06:27 AM.
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  #38  
Old 09-25-2009, 06:45 AM
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Default Re: Outdoor sink

I am reminded why I moved to a third world country. A drop drain or french drain is totally sufficient. Unless your soil is hard pan clay and it peculates reasonably well, you should have no problem. Why would you put organic material down your drain anyway? People need to be trained not to put that stuff down the drain, in the same manner they are taught to recycle. And use the drain sparingly, ie. don't let the water run for long periods of time at full throttle. This is actually a more "green" solution than putting it into the sewer. I agree with the more "water conscious" crowd in that you in the US need to do more of this kind of thing.

One small sink, draining into a half meter gravel filled pit 24 inches deep, covered with 6 inches of soil and make a nice planting bed over it. There are many designs out there just for this sort of thing. Common sense should prevail, just don't show the building inspector.
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  #39  
Old 09-25-2009, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: Outdoor sink

Hmmm, maybe that wasn't clearest answer I've ever given.

I agree that for small outdoor sink a French drain is more than adequate. I never meant to imply otherwise. What we got off on was a discussion on why an interior kitchen sink would produce black water instead of gray water.

Rereading Mark's question I may have misunderstood him. I thought the question was a theoretical one about an outdoor sink, but he might have had an interior sink in mind. In either case, technically (although maybe not practically) water from a true sink, not a lavatory, is blackwater. I don't see anything unreasonable in taking additional precautions with an outdoor sink, although I don't think that they're actually necessary in most cases. However, if you are doing all your cooking outdoors the health department is going to be really unhappy with you unless that thing is attached to a sewage drain.

The long and the short of it is for all practical purposes the blackwater/graywater distinction really doesn't matter for an outdoor sink that is only used part time. All else is theory.
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Last edited by Archena; 09-25-2009 at 07:38 PM.
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  #40  
Old 10-12-2009, 10:46 AM
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Default Re: Outdoor sink

The problem is the connection. I'm sure I've seen flex plumbing used on standard faucets so it is possible. Maybe there's a special connector? There must be some kind of coupler for it.

Careful about consuming the water. Some hoses leach chemicals - which I'm not sure. Personally, I've drunk straight from the hose more times than I can count but I have read some warnings about it.

Hmm, this has been a pretty useless post.
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Last edited by Archena; 10-12-2009 at 10:48 AM.
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