Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community (http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/)
-   Outdoor Kitchen Design (http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f35/)
-   -   new patio suggestions (http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f35/new-patio-suggestions-2522.html)

Brauma 09-06-2007 06:46 PM

new patio suggestions
 
Hi all, Im in the process of designing my own Outdoor Kitchen and I have a question about the floor. We are planning on a stamped concrete patio approx 20x28'. The Kitchen area will be in one corner of the patio and will be 12x12'.

Should I ask the concrete contractor to leave the 12x12 area flat/unstamped? We will be building the cabinets in this area. At this point Im not sure if we will build them with cinder blocks or salt treated wood.

Or should I just have the whole area stamped? In other words, will it matter to a mason if the concrete patio is perfectly flat like a broomed surface or can he lay the first run of block on top of stamped concrete?

Thanks

dmun 09-06-2007 07:17 PM

Re: new patio suggestions
 
I'd never heard of stamped concrete, so I did a little web search. It seems that there are a lot of patterns, but none appear to be very deep. I can't imagine that it would be a problem for mortaring walls for your kitchen or oven on top of that.

Brauma 09-06-2007 07:28 PM

Re: new patio suggestions
 
Stamped has gotten very popular lately. Lots of patterns and many colors to choose from. We are looking at an "English Cobblestone" pattern using 3 shades of gray color. It looks great.

Another decorative possibility with concrete is acid staining. Im giving that some thought as well. I could keep a flat smooth broomed surface but have a splash of color. Its a thought.

Unofornaio 09-06-2007 09:26 PM

Re: new patio suggestions
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi and welcome.

For the mason its not gonna matter one way or the other for him, if it does, get a new mason. seriously.

As to the stamp as long as you are sure you will NEVER change your mind I would tell them to just broom it. One big reason, COST. We charge about 6.00 a sq' for regular flat work (side walks, driveways,etc) we charge 16.00sq' for colored, stamped. I don't know what the price difference in your area is but I'm sure its at least half as much more.

Out here, we cant even GIVE away grey concrete, everyone wants colored or stamped and colored. A few words on stamping.

1. It can go very wrong very quickly make sure your guys have done this before. GO LOOK AT THE WORK. If they have no reference for you to see find someone else, trust me there is NO learning curve on this stuff.

2. Depending on the manufacture of the stamp, the cobblestone pattern can render the patio furniture completely unusable because of the unevenness of the pattern. If you haven't thought of this yet do so, a lot of customers don't think of it until its too late.

3. Color- integral color (color they put in the truck) although it seem to make logical sense is NOT the best way to get vibrant color from concrete. We used to do it this way for years until the new trowel in colors came out. These formulas contain not only color but UV inhibitors (for fading) and color hardeners. Color hardeners actually increase the surface psi of the concrete and produce a much more vibrant color that lasts longer than integral colors. This is another caution area for the inexperianced..troweling in the color if done wrong can ruin the entire surface of the concrete and you will get massive spalling and or irregular color variation.

4. The dust on release agent (some use spray on, no difference in quality) will go EVERYWHERE and I mean EVERYWHERE. this stuff smells horrible is toxic to breath and will stain any surface in comes in contact with so if you have anything in that area you do not want ruined make sure they cover everything and mask the house off at least 3 feet up from the patio, if its gonna be near the house..

5. Again with the cobble stone pattern- It sounds like you really like it and I understand that but I want you to think about this as well. It is a huge dirt collector all those quaint old world joints fill up with dirt and sand and anything else that will fit. Sounds like I hate it hu? well honestly I like the look of real cobble stone and the stamp is not too bad but is just not that user friendly. Women have a hard time on it with heels kids rattle there brains out on the bikes or other toys.

6. Last make sure when you look at their work you see how they put in their joints in relation to the stamp pattern. Nothing looks worse than a beautiful stamp job with say an ashlar slate pattern and every 10' you have a saw cut straight line right through the pattern...so much for looking realistic. I have seen hundreds of jobs like this it is almost the norm but we do not do it that way. It takes longer to integrate the joints with the pattern but it can be done.

That should about do it... I may have gotten carried away but We take out so much bad stamp work its a shame. then again I see stuff that people are just nuts over that I feel like saying HELLO, um its supposed to look like the REAL thing. The colors and products are there now days that if your stamped concrete doesn't look like the real "whatever pattern you have chosen" it was not done right.

Dmun- they even have a couple of stamps for concrete that look like wood plank flooring. Working with wood I thought you might get a kick out of that.. here is a pic. YEs thats concrete..

RTflorida 09-06-2007 09:45 PM

Re: new patio suggestions
 
Very good info. Thanks Uno

Archena 09-07-2007 06:45 AM

Re: new patio suggestions
 
Wouldn't the mortar fill in the cracks under the block anyway?

If multiple patterns are a possibility you might consider using the cobblestone as an accent in a low traffic section and something more user friendly for the high traffic areas. I'd think a 'brick' pattern would be more used friendly since the real thing make usable patios - and you could always deliberately fill in cracks with sand if necessary since real brick patios are sealed that way.

I'm thinking about stamped concrete myself but that would be a long ways down the road for me. I may try a few DIY small projects (like walkways) to see if I like it - and that are small enough to yank up if I don't.

Archena 09-07-2007 06:47 AM

Re: new patio suggestions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Unofornaio (Post 14846)
...

Dmun- they even have a couple of stamps for concrete that look like wood plank flooring. Working with wood I thought you might get a kick out of that.. here is a pic. YEs thats concrete..

Ooooooohhhh!!!!! Purdy!:)

Pannabecker 09-07-2007 10:38 AM

Re: new patio suggestions
 
Mark, You mentioned you don't know whether you're going to build your kitchen out of concrete block or wood yet and I'm wondering if you're going to decide this before your concrete is poured. If you're using the block you may need the patio to be thicker there, depending on the weight. Unofornaio could tell you this. I ended up building mine out of wood because my patio is 40 X 30 and I had to cut costs somewhere. I already had so many areas that had to be much thicker because of my oven, bbq and hot tub. It all adds up quick. Concrete isn't as cheap as I thought. I just had a light broom finish and I'm acid staining and sealing it. Karen

Brauma 09-09-2007 07:35 PM

Re: new patio suggestions
 
Uno, excellent info. Thanks so much. I'll be contacting the stamping contractor and asking for a reference of an English Cobblestone job. Sounds like we really need to go walk on one before we sign a contract.

Im also talking to a contractor who does acid staining. Again, I need to go see some of their work and then I'll make the call. The price is better for staining so that has my attention.

Brauma 09-09-2007 07:46 PM

Re: new patio suggestions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pannabecker (Post 14862)
Mark, You mentioned you don't know whether you're going to build your kitchen out of concrete block or wood yet and I'm wondering if you're going to decide this before your concrete is poured. If you're using the block you may need the patio to be thicker there, depending on the weight. Unofornaio could tell you this. I ended up building mine out of wood because my patio is 40 X 30 and I had to cut costs somewhere. I already had so many areas that had to be much thicker because of my oven, bbq and hot tub. It all adds up quick. Concrete isn't as cheap as I thought. I just had a light broom finish and I'm acid staining and sealing it. Karen

Karen, I may PM you and ask about your concrete and staining contractor and price per sq ft for staining if thats not prying too much. Let me know. Since we're both in VA I'm thinking the prices shouldn't be too far apart.

I may very well go with staining because of price. I would love to have the whole patio done in pavers but thats not in my budget.

I'm 99% sure that I'll get a mason in my church to help me and build the islands with cinderblock. I asked both concrete contractors about a footer for my islands because of the weight. They mentioned 3500 psi concrete and that I wouldn't need them. I really don't want to get 5 years down the road and see the counters and counter tops crack due to settling.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:12 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC