#11  
Old 09-11-2007, 09:52 AM
BaconGrease's Avatar
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Default Re: new patio suggestions

In our outdoor kitchen the concrete block is actually 2 feet below ground on all the structures, having said that the patio itself is blue stone over leveled and tamped ground not a cement slab.
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  #12  
Old 09-11-2007, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: new patio suggestions

Bacon, it sounds like you have footers for your counters. Thats what Im talkin about! You're setup is done very nice and simple yet elegant and functional. Did you have a contractor design it and build it all, or did you do some or all of it yourself?
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  #13  
Old 09-11-2007, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: new patio suggestions

With a new patio slab @ 4" thick with 1/2" rebar you should be just fine for the weight. There is no reason to use 6" block either they make 4" that will work very nice for the base of the cabinets and counter top. These will give you more usable space inside also.
I don't recall if you mentioned footings for the oven or not but this is a given.

If you are going to be really concerned about the weight regardless of who tells you what you can always have the concrete contractor make some "mini" footings in this area of concern. Roughly 6" deep total any more than that is a waste.. So the layout of the "mini" footings would be like tracing the outline of where the cabinets would be.
I'm interested in hearing the prices back there for stamp and also staining if you don't mind posting it I would appreciate it.
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: new patio suggestions

Uno, stamping seems to be going for $10-12/sq ft depending on the stamp. And that varies a little bit from contractor to contractor. Staining is going for $4-6/sq ft after the pour. So, if I pay $4/sq ft for a garage floor style finished unstained pour. Then it will add an additional $4/sq ft for the staining guy to come back and do a basic stain. It goes up from there.

This is what I'm being told. Does this sound about right or high?

Uno, are you saying that the 1/2" rebar should be just under the kitchen area or should it run throughout the entire patio? From what I recall, when I watched my basement slab being poured, all they laid out for tensile strength was what I call hog wire. It comes in a roll and is made from approx 1/8" wire making 5" squares.
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Last edited by Brauma; 09-13-2007 at 08:33 AM.
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  #15  
Old 09-13-2007, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: new patio suggestions

Everything you read tells you that an acid stain won't take very well on anything but a garage-finish floor. I asked my concrete contractor to do that for me so I could stain it and he went on and on about how slippery it would be. He told me he would do a very light broom finish and not expose much sand. To be honest, I don't think he was capable of doing a garage-finish. Even his broom finish is not good. I would never recommend this guy. Lots of low spots. Too bad Uno doesn't live nearby. That said, I have stained my sidewalks and they took the stain just great. I'm doing my own staining because I'm not having a pattern done and just want a mottled, more rustic look. I've done it before on my inside kitchen countertops I made and loved it. It's not hard to do if you like a marble-like uneven finish. I'm using two colors. The first time I used Kemiko brand stain and was very happy with it. This time I got stain from Direct Colors and it seems like I have to use more stain. Of course, I can't really compare the 2 because the countertops were indoors in controlled heat and my patio is out in the very hot sun and the stain dries way too quickly. Also it's two different finishes and mixes of concrete.

Good luck. Karen
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: new patio suggestions

Interesting Karen. I never considered staining the slab myself. Didn't know the acid coloring was available to the non-trained pro. Another decision to make...

The staining contractor that Ive been talking with has recently lost his pouring crew. So he's all apologetic and he's the one who quoted me the prices of $4 for coming in after the pour and staining it 30 days later.

He also made it very clear that who ever I got to pour the slab that it should make it a garage floor style finish with no fiberglass in the mix.

I hate the fact that my budget has me still looking for different flooring materials ever since April - when I started getting quotes. If my backyard was flat or near flat I would be in a better position. My yard slopes away and drops approx 2' in a 24' run. So I'm looking at building a retaining wall too.

Bummer. All this needs to be done before I can even start on the kitchen. I'm so impatient!
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:37 AM
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Default Re: new patio suggestions

Mark,

I know what you mean about being impatient. I'm the same way. That's why I try to do everything myself, I can't stand waiting for people to show up. Unfortunately, I couldn't do the concrete patio myself either. I know nothing about grading and don't own the equipment. But now, here I am, 2 and a half months after the patio was poured and I have a pizza oven completed, the pergola built and my bbq pit just about done. I'm still working on the cupboards and building the forms for the countertop. It's hard not to become obsessed and stay awake at night planning it all.

Karen
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  #18  
Old 09-14-2007, 06:34 AM
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Default Re: new patio suggestions

You're an inspiration, Karen. The thought of being done 2 &1/2 months after the pour gives me the shivers!

Speaking of the retaining wall, one idea is to make it 2' higher at the far end of the patio and it will become a seating area. I like it.
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  #19  
Old 09-14-2007, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: new patio suggestions

Mark,
Don't be too impressed. I'm fortunate enough not to have to work outside the home, therefore, this is my fulltime job. Karen
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  #20  
Old 09-14-2007, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: new patio suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brauma View Post
Uno, stamping seems to be going for $10-12/sq ft depending on the stamp. And that varies a little bit from contractor to contractor. Staining is going for $4-6/sq ft after the pour. So, if I pay $4/sq ft for a garage floor style finished unstained pour. Then it will add an additional $4/sq ft for the staining guy to come back and do a basic stain. It goes up from there.

This is what I'm being told. Does this sound about right or high?

Uno, are you saying that the 1/2" rebar should be just under the kitchen area or should it run throughout the entire patio? From what I recall, when I watched my basement slab being poured, all they laid out for tensile strength was what I call hog wire. It comes in a roll and is made from approx 1/8" wire making 5" squares.
Did I say 1/2" ? Sorry.. 3/8" should be fine and I would do the whole patio.
Here is the thing with us on reinforcement in flat-work.

Just fiber= worthless
Wire Mesh + Fiber = a little better
3/8" Rebar on 18" centers = Very good
Rebar + Fiber = Excellent

Why rebar AND fiber well, the rebar is for internal cracking after the slab has set in the case of movement, ect. The fiber is for what is called plastic or shrinkage cracks that can appear as soon a few hours after the concrete is poured. We have recently started adding fiber to ALL our mixes. We have been experiencing plastic cracks at an increasing rate for years now..the only explanation is the mixes have changed and the inclusion of more chemicals has created this phenomena. The other important factor in keeping your slab together is where the control joints are we DO NOT make any section larger than 10 X 10 if the customer wants larger sections its time for the waver to be signed 10 x 10 is what we have come to over the years. If your contractor is not as concerned about the joints as he is about the reinforcement you might as well not put anything in the slab at all. That way when it cracks @12' it will be easier to take out...not wire or rebar

SORRY I forgot the comment on the prices. Yes that sound pretty reasonable compared to what we get and what others get out here but the best scale to use for comparison is 2 other contractors in YOUR area. This will give you a good picture what the market will bare. I don't know about other parts of the country but CA is SLOOOOOW for concrete now..very slow.

Last edited by Unofornaio; 09-14-2007 at 08:01 PM.
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