#11  
Old 09-09-2012, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: BBQ Coach

Cabinets are 24" to the outside edge of the hardieboard. That's standard depth. But with the veneer they will be an inch or so so deeper. I plan do do 25 1/2 inch counters - maybe plus 1/2" because of the uneven nature of the veneer. Still deciding on that one.
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  #12  
Old 09-10-2012, 10:53 AM
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Default Re: BBQ Coach

I'm curious, deejayoh (or others) why, with the WFO, you're choosing to do the BBQ and kitchen areas framed with concrete board rather than just CMU. Is there really any cost difference? Build time? Space? Would love to know.

Thanks.
Bill~
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  #13  
Old 09-10-2012, 11:37 AM
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Default Re: BBQ Coach

Bill -
couple of reasons I went with the metal studs:
1) CMU are 8" thick, whereas metal stud + walls are < 4". So if you want cabinets and such, you get lots more room inside for the same outside space with metal studs
2) metal studs are easier to cut and configure for custom sizes - again, if you want interior cabinets it works better.
3) I call my oven "Cinquanta le Scale" 'cause it's 50 stairs from street to eat. I can carry 5 studs up the stairs at a time or 2 CMU.

But if you just want a simple square kitchen area with few/no cabinets - and don't have to carry things too far - CMU work just fine.
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  #14  
Old 09-11-2012, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: BBQ Coach

Excellent...thanks. I was actually planning on using 6 inch CMU for those areas for the interior space...so I understand you're feeling on this. So...that brings me to another question. You talked about flexibility with frame/board vs. CMU...my design calls for a curved counter (concave actually). Any ideas on how to do this with cement board? Is it flexible enough to do a radius curve of about 12-14 feet? I was planning on doing it with CMU (like the WFO stand) because I could execute the curve with half blocks.

Thoughts? Thanks.
Bill~
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  #15  
Old 09-11-2012, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: BBQ Coach

Bill
if i can jump in...
I have been using a product called Permabase. It is flexible to form a 90 deg bend in 5 feet. Good stuff and can cut with knife and break like sheetrock. It comes in 4 x8 sheets. I couldn't find it at HD or Lowes (like so much of the stuff we need) but i am getting it from a local builders supply that had the metal studs as well.
HTH
Tracy
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: BBQ Coach

^^^

That is a better answer than I would have had. I would guess that hardieboard would work on a 12-14' radius, but it sounds like the product Tracy mentions is designed for that.

Bigger issue will be getting the metal studs to curve. I would guess that just requires cutting slots along the back side of the top and bottom track to allow it to curve.
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  #17  
Old 09-11-2012, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: BBQ Coach

i had the same problem. Seems like we are always making something round out of square stuff. It becomes a habit after a while.;
I don't have a very good answer. I built my counters out of the 20ga. studs. The inside facing i kept flat with angles. I couldn't figure out how to make the flat door frames and drawer units, grills and frig look good in a radius. Since i was building a bar and needed a wide base, i used the CMUs and core filled to create the curve and base for the bar and then faced with full brick to hide the cmu and make and even wider base for the bar. Then finished with the concrete lid.
Tracy
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: BBQ Coach

Awesome, guys. Thanks. Okay, Texman...so you made the operating side of the bar squared off (but angled) and the business side of the bar (the drinking side) round with CMU/brick. Is that right?

My rounded feature (well, everything in my design is rounded...and every material from the pavers to the CMU and studs to the brick veneer I'm using is square...what is wrong with us) is rounded from the front (and squared in the back into a hill (and through an existing retaining wall)...so it sounds like I'm doing it backwards. On this curved face I will have the opening to my wood storage, a gas BBQ, and at least one stainless door system (I've included a couple of renderings...it may be hard to see the curve, but hopefully it helps). I'm still trying to figure out how to do this with studs/cement board. If I resort to CMU and give up all the space inside, my plan is to make the curve and use concrete cores and rebar to sturdy it up. If I do this, do I have to cut the CMU or is leaving gaps in the "back" okay. Also, I'm hoping to not mortar the wall in the traditional fashion (for time's sake) and use a surface bonding cement on the face to waterproof it and help bind the blocks together (since I can't really do that in the back without cutting, the concrete cores and rebar are providing strength, not the surface bonding cement). Any suggestions along these lines?

I was planning on using half blocks of 6" CMU (i.e. 6x8x8) to easily make the curve (could probably get away with full blocks on my big curve, actually, but my firepit-2 foot radius, and firepit seating-4 and 5 foot radii, will need the half block).

Really thought, I'd like to use studs/concrete boards because they're lighter, easy, and provide more in-cabinet space. I ask again...why do we like curves so much? Don't answer that.

I'm starting to wonder if I need to make the cabinet itself more of a polygon and do a nice curve just on the countertop...
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  #19  
Old 09-12-2012, 08:14 AM
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Bill
Nice job on the render. I see what you are trying to do and i think you can use the metal studs and something like the permabase and make it work.
And yes, my business(drinking) side is round and the work side is flat and angled.
I would use the metal instead of the CMU because it is so much easier and you will have SOo much more storage room. I left gaps in the back of the cmus to make the curve on mine. No problem because i was covering it up. I think that is the case for you as well with the board/studs: if you are going to veneer with rock/brick/stone=no problem(like your render) Just put some brick ties in to the cboard and studs. The veneer layer can be manipulated (grinder) to accept the flat frame of a stainless door set and look very nice. If you want a stucco finish, it would be tough around the flat doors, but a good pro could do it, i think.
On the back wall: i set my cmus dry (other than the first course that i leveled) and put rebar and concrete in the cores. I think you can use studs/permabase there as well. I had never used the metal studs before this project. The seem flimsy at first, but once cut, set and glued and screwed with good concrete board, they are rock solid. Some of the builders(deejay) have used the Trex type material to set the metal on between the concrete floor and studs. Gives a nice rot proof kick layer and looks good too. The normal toe kick area on outdoor cabinets is difficult and i chose to pass on that. Give some thought to your counter material at this point. If you are planning something like a thick concrete counter be sure and add the necessary framework to hold the weight. If a lighter weight counter is the plan, no worries.
Also consider the weight factor of all of this on your existing slab. I am not sure if you poured the slab especially for this project or it was existing and being retasked. Pizza ovens and bricks and all this stuff really add up. I did the flat inside with angles to save some weight and depth that another layer of brick would have added. A 24" interior with 4" bricks in the front and back jumps to a 34" counter depth w/ overhang. Conversely, a 24 counter w/ brick on both sides below and a 1' overhang leaves only around 15" inside.

As far as the big radius setup, i would get it laid out on your floor and build the squares of metal studs along the radius lines spaced according to the load you expect. Set them with tapcons and then tie them together with more metal and glue and screw the board on. The smaller radius of the firepit and others: permabase makes another product that they say is more flexible and would bend to your desired radius. Google permabase, it is a Natl gypsum product.
I like curves. I know somebody will build a twin dome oven, just wait.
Tracy
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: BBQ Coach

Thanks, Tex.

LOL, first of all, don't worry about the slab. I've attached two pics; how the area looked a couple of weeks ago and how it looked last night now that the contractor has his guys digging (chiseling) trenches in our soil (rock) .

SIDENOTE: You've all heard the parable of the houses built on the sand and the rock, right? Well, let's just say our house ain't going anywhere.

The point is, though, that I've just barely started work on this, and there is nothing back there yet except for the existing retaining wall out of split-face block that the builder put in. It's a blank slate, baby. I'll be putting in a 5-1/2" reinforced slab (with the curve) specifically to accommodate the build. The hearth slab, though, will be poured partially on the base and partially on another slab that I'll be pouring at about 30"-33" off grade level (after pavers) directly on top of the hill behind the retaining wall that I'm digging out. I don't know exactly how high, yet, as the contractor hasn't finished grading the whole thing, so I don't know where the grade will be, exactly. I'll be removing two courses of the existing retaining wall for approximately 10 linear feet for this build. Digging another 6 inches or so below that, and pouring a reinforced slab there, too, as a base for the new, pushed back retaining wall that will be necessary (I'll try to match the split-face block on that part) as well as the WFO hearth pour that will span the higher slab and the top of the base (made out of CMU). Then the plan is to build the cabinets to both sides of the WFO stand (this is what I'm trying to figure out) out of studs/cement board or CMU. Either way, it will be finished with brick veneer (about an inch+ in thickness). I've attached a top-down view to help visualize. For the oven, I'm planning a 3.5" hearth, a 3.5" pour of vermicrete (or similar) the size of the "oven house", and then 2 inches of FB board on top of that under the actual dome. That should get me at a vent (floor) height of about 40" to 43". Might go higher...just not sure yet. The counter around it will be poured at the standard 36" height.

Speaking of the counter top, which will span across all of it, right up to the structure of the WFO and across the whole counter, will be a poured-in-place concrete counter (like yours and DJO's). It will be heavy. I've never done anything like that before, so believe me, I'm following you guys very closely. Also, DJO has a hearth slab built partially on a stand and partially on grade...so that's been of particular interest, too. So...thanks, guys.

Tex...I'm a little confused on what you're saying around building the arch into the cabinets with the studs. I know the concrete board will bend (I looked up the specs on the standard stuff that DJO used, and even that will do a 5-foot radius, I guess), but how would I frame it with a curve? Do you mean frame it with straight lines, angled, but then curve the cement board across that? That's kind of what I was thinking...but haven't used steel studs before (but I've framed plenty of walls...just always straight...and using wood).

I like the idea of the Trex material, and if it bends, I will want to use that, I think. DJO...do you think it would work on an arch like mine? For the fire pit and fire pit seating, I'll just build it out of CMU half-blocks to accommodate the tighter radii, keep it simple, etc. Those will be finished in the brick veneer as well. Maybe I'll show a render of the whole thing soon. What I need to do is start a thread on the build...I'm going to be asking a LOT of questions...I can tell. So thanks again, everyone, for all of the great examples as well as the willingness to help. BTW, I laughed out loud re: the double domed oven. I agree...someone will do it.
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