Coal Fired Brick Oven Construction

[Archena]

Um, coal isn't very clean burning. My guess is that it was used under the oven simply because it wouldn't cooperate inside. From what Johnrbek said I'd gather that coal ovens are a fairly late introduction. It's therefore a lot more likely that coal is used underneath for practical reasons rather than mere tradition. During the shift to coal there would have been some experimentation going on and because it wasn't hysterically long ago those conclusions are likely to still be relevant.

The terms 'white' and 'black' ovens are also a clue. 'White' presumably refers to the soot from the wood fire eventually turning white as it is finally burned off. 'Black' may refer to the lack of such a burn off in coal fires. That seems probable given coal's reputation for burning dirty.

[Archena]

Originally Posted by cooper

I live in Connecticut, not far from New Haven and have been to Pepe's and Sally's a few times. I can't answer Jame's question "Where the flame", but there is another restaurant (actually three of them) in CT called 'First and Last Tavern'. They have a very large, old coal fired 'white' oven. The coal fire sits in a separate chamber just behind the main cooking chamber, separated by a half hieght wall. The heat has direct access to the cooking area by bouncing off the ceiling, but the fire isn't directly in the same area. I think you would need to build a very large oven to try to duplicate this approach. They have a temperature gauge that I think read 800 when I was there last. They pizza is very good-similar to Pepe's or Patsy's, but without the long wait.

Hmmmm, that blows my theory then....

[PIZZAMANMIKE]

I Just Completed One, Not Without Alot Of Design Changes, But I Think It Was Worth It. With A Coal Oven You Still Use Wood To Start, Also You Need An Air Flow For The Coal And An Ash Bin. Their Are Many Types Of Ovens. In This Case Bigger Is Not Always Better. You Should Choose Size Based On The Qty.of Pizza's Per Hour. As You Know You Can Cook At Least 1 16" Pizza In 90 Seconds Or Less In A Wood Oven, In A Coal Oven It's About 3 Min. As It Does Not Have The Heat Over The Top. I've Been Playing With Using Both. As Coal Keeps The Deck Hotter Than Wood, By Using Coal And Wood, I'm Still Able To Keep The Cooking Time Down To 90 Seconds Or Less And Use Less Fuel.

Pizaman

[dmun]

Hi, Mike, and welcome.

We get asked about coal fired ovens a lot. I know that coal fires need to be started with wood, but not that they needed an auxiliary air intake. Do you use a grate? Do you use hard coal or soft?

A picture would be nice if you have a chance. Thanks.

[PIZZAMANMIKE]

Originally Posted by dmun

Hi, Mike, and welcome.

We get asked about coal fired ovens a lot. I know that coal fires need to be started with wood, but not that they needed an auxiliary air intake. Do you use a grate? Do you use hard coal or soft?

A picture would be nice if you have a chance. Thanks.

you need a grate for continued use , but if you use oven once or twice a week you can get away without one, air intake is important in adj. of heat. any type of coal will work, i havent finished th oven front as it is still a proto type, I can adapt most ovens to coal. I still haven't figured out how to post photo but you can contact me at mike@mikethepizzaman.com

[dmun]

There's two ways to put a picture on Forno Bravo forum. If your picture is uploaded somewhere on the internet, like your own website, or Forno bravo's photo log, you can just hit the "postcard" button above the text box, and paste the location (URL) in the dialog box that pops up:



Or, if you hit "Go Advanced" or "Post reply" buttons, you can upload an image directly from your computer's hard drive, and it shows up as a thumbnail image at the bottom of your posting. Below your text box will be a button labeled "Manage Attachments" from which you can browse and select an image on your computer to upload.

Good luck.

[Primo]

There seems to be a question about the location of the flame in a coal oven. I'll attempt to answer that question as best I can.

First off, older coal fired ovens were in fact at one time bread ovens and built during the industrial revolution. The dominate heating fuel of the time was coal or a form of baked coal called coke, many bakeries would use either depending upon availability.

Coal ovens have a storage area just under the oven, this is not were the fire is kept. The fire is kept on either the left or right hand side of the cooking area. In the case of Frank Pepe's there is a separate door on the right hand side of the oven. The fire is started with wood and then switched to coal.

The primary difference between coal and wood as a heat source is that coal reaches higher oven temperatures while burning much slower and with less smoke. I personally know of at least one oven that was improperly loaded with enough coal to melt the support beam.

Hope this helps

[Stiennon]

I had pizza at Tomatoes Apizza this past weekend in Farmington Hills Michigan (US). They have a large coal fired pizza oven. Big bin of coal built in below.

Picture at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/netman21/2960915635/

[Stiennon]

Try again:

[dmun]

This is interesting because it clearly shows the coal fire inside the cooking chamber, to the left. Do you think there was a shaker grate, or air intake below the coal fire, or were they just burning it on the oven floor like we do for wood?