An Italian Uncle

[janprimus]

Originally Posted by maver

Purchasing a few more blankets for a full 3" thickness would be a very simple way to achieve excellent insulation - if money is not an issue. However, I will end up spending about $90 for perlite in the end - probably another $30 for materials to close off dead space and attempt to seal the enclosure prior to the pour of loose fill, and my insulation certainly seems to be working well.

I think money is always an issue, but think of performance and longevity. These ovens you are building are meant to last what 50-100 years? Amortize the cost out over the life of the oven and you will find no excuse to do a shabby or cheap job of it. It was very telling when I was in Europe a few years ago, new construction there follows very strict rules and cheap and or shoddy practices are not tolerated. If you do it, do it right. Someone over there told me that they built for the homes to last a minimum of 150 years. That is far more responsible.
Do it right!
Peace
Chad

[maver]

Janprimus, I agree with do it right, and I think there is great convenience to e.g. ceramic blanket insulation as I laid out on my last post on this matter. But when James has stated that 1" insulfrax is equivalent in insulating value to 2 inches of vermiculite/perlite then this is a convenience vs cost issue, not a do it right vs. do it wrong - both work well. The "problem" with loose filled insulation is need to do more prep of the area to fill, but the insulating value is excellent. The (small) "problem" with ceramic blanket insulation is acquisition of the product. And there are other options for insulation such as perlcrete, blanket insulations other than insulfrax, as well as other areas of heat loss (hearth, door) to take care of.

With my loose fill perlite and shabby (see my other posts on this if interested) test-of-concept door my oven was 380 degrees this morning after making pizza last night. It seems to be working "right" . I'm not sure there is any longevity issue at stake with blanket vs loose fill either.

[james]

There is one reason for using the more efficient insulation. It's the idea of aggressively stopping the heat and keeping it inside the oven. There are two reasons to insulate -- keeping heat from getting somewhere you don't want it and keeping heat where you do want it. At one extreme, 12" of concrete around an oven will keep heat from reaching the enclosure walls (where you don't want it), but it will not keep heat inside the oven (where you do want it).

Whether you use Insulfrax and SuperIsol, only vermiculite/perlite, or a mix is a shade of grey -- that every Pompeii builder gets to pick. Forno Bravo ovens come with the Insulfrax.
James

[james]

Ciao Luciano,

One quick note -- the SuperIsol is good to 1800F, so you are in good shape there. Most folks use the 1" Insulfrax, with an additional 4" vermiculite. But as they say, there is no such thing as too much insulation (and there is definitely such thing as too little).

I am going to miss you here in Oct. We are going to be in Florence. Drop me an email and we can set you up to meet with Tammy and/or Krista. We are just about finished with a nice new showroom, that makes it easy to see the different oven styles, sizes, etc., along with all of the accessories (without having to go back into the warehouse). We will make a formal announcement on the showroom very shortly.

Saluti,
James

[dalucca2003]

Originally Posted by james

There is one reason for using the more efficient insulation. It's the idea of aggressively stopping the heat and keeping it inside the oven. There are two reasons to insulate -- keeping heat from getting somewhere you don't want it and keeping heat where you do want it. At one extreme, 12" of concrete around an oven will keep heat from reaching the enclosure walls (where you don't want it), but it will not keep heat inside the oven (where you do want it).

Whether you use Insulfrax and SuperIsol, only vermiculite/perlite, or a mix is a shade of grey -- that every Pompeii builder gets to pick. Forno Bravo ovens come with the Insulfrax.
James

James,

Not sure if you have read any of the earlier posts in this thread, but I was wondering if you will be in the States around October. My uncle from Italy should be here and I though we would take a drive and pick up the oven from you directly if okay. My uncle also stated he thinks he knows who you are. Not sure how, but I know he would like to meet you.

Ciao,

Luciano

[james]

Luciano,

Very funny. I think you and I posted our notes at almost exactly the same time.

Sorry I am going to miss your uncle in Nor Cal -- though I would like to get introduced to him in Lucca at some point. Perhaps soon. You can easily pick up an oven from the warehouse/showroom. Lots of folks do that.

Why don't you send me an email (james@fornobravo.com) and we can make all the arrangements.
James