#11  
Old 10-17-2006, 06:29 AM
maver's Avatar
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Default Oven height

I think you want to pick your oven hearth height based on the level that would be comfortable to slide pizza in and out of the oven - keep in mind that to slide it in you want the peel tilted up at an angle to allow the pizza to slip off. I think this generally gives you a lower oven than what might be comfortable to look into.

You certainly can err on the side of too high - worse case you build a raised platform at the oven entrance to allow easier work in the oven. Hard to correct too low.
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2006, 03:37 PM
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Default re brick count

Hello again, Hendo!

I've counted 21 firebricks of the 230 mm x 115 mm size (tapered across the length 75 mm down to 63 mm) for the first course - laid flat - in my first rough sketch of my planned 1000mm dia dome oven (39in) (see attached).

This seems to tally with the quantities listed in the corresponding "kit" from Darley Refractories I mentioned before: 67 bricks of the 75->63mm taper; 33 of the 75->57mm taper and 25 of the 230 x 230 x 35mm (or 50mm) bricks for the floor.

For the 1200 mm dia. oven the "kit" specifies 100 of the first type and 20 of the steeper taper bricks, as well as 36 base tiles.

Note that the suppliers told me the first course bricks remain whole, but subsequent courses are built from bricks split in half across the 230 mm length.

Note further that the "kit" does NOT rpt NOT include any instructions (as I've already mentioned in other posts) - that's why I refer to it as the "kit" :-)

The sketch attached also shows the concrete blocks (400 x 200 x 200 mm) along the axes of a hexagon that are to support the circular hearth of about 1750 mm dia. ; the blocks are in turn to be supported on a concrete post&beam foundation that I' am still trying to suss out :-)

(You'll see that I need to readjust the two radials next to the oven opening so that they don't obstruct the cook's movements...)

Cheers and good luck, mate!

Carioca


IMPORTANT PS: Hendo, I stupidly mixed up diameter and radius in my measurements! So I sketched a 2m diameter oven, instead of a 1m diameter oven... of course the brick counts are totally OFF target! Will redo ASAP and advise new brick countshttp://www.fornobravo.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif
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Attached Thumbnails
Bricks required for a 43" oven-img_0524.jpg  

Last edited by carioca; 10-19-2006 at 12:05 AM. Reason: brick count is for a 2m diameter oven!!!
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2006, 06:06 PM
DrakeRemoray's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendo
The company also markets a premixed air-setting medium duty refractory mortar with a 22% alumina and 72% silica content, so I assume that this would marry well with the 23/73 bricks. Members views would be much appreciated on these matters.
I don't think you want to use an air-set mortar. I understand that they are not waterproof and therefore not ideal for outdoor use...

Drake
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  #14  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:48 PM
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Default Bricks etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by james
Hendo,
One your bricks, I have heard many times that 30% alumina is what you are shooting for -- and that includes our precast ovens and the bricks used in the Forno Bravo Artigiano ovens. I am wondering if there is a cultural translation going on with low, medium and high duty.
James
James,
Definitely a cultural phenomenon I'd reckon. As I mentioned previously, the company does do a 33% alumina 63% silica fire brick, but the tapered ones included in their 'kits' are of the 23/73 mix. So I guess my choice is either to go for standard shaped bricks with higher alumina content, or the lower ones that come tapered. While the tapered ones sound appealing, I'd want to be sure that the degree of taper is not too severe - otherwise I may end up with gaps on the inside of the dome. I hope to inspect some locally, so I'll be able to see this for myself. Of course, I could simply change the design to a smaller diameter dome, too, to suit the bricks.
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  #15  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:59 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by james
Hendo,
On the Ulignano oven, I am sitting about 3 miles from that oven as I write. It's a small world. That's an oven that has seen a few meals.
James
James,
Indeed it is a small world! Il Mattone is the name of the agriturismo where we stayed – see pics. You’ve probably driven past. That view of San Gimignano in the distance is hard to beat!
Attached Thumbnails
Bricks required for a 43" oven-4458-31.jpg   Bricks required for a 43" oven-4458-37.jpg   Bricks required for a 43" oven-4458-34.jpg  
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  #16  
Old 10-19-2006, 06:02 PM
Journeyman
 
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Default Oven Height

Quote:
Originally Posted by maver
I think you want to pick your oven hearth height based on the level that would be comfortable to slide pizza in and out of the oven - keep in mind that to slide it in you want the peel tilted up at an angle to allow the pizza to slip off. I think this generally gives you a lower oven than what might be comfortable to look into.

Maver,
Thanks for this practical advice - I hadn't considered the angle required for the peel, and will take this into account.
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  #17  
Old 10-20-2006, 03:30 AM
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Default

Lot's going on here.

Hendo, can you take a photo of a tapered brick? I'm having trouble getting a mental picture of how they would work. If you could stack a couple of them, and post the photo, that would help me see how this might go.

If the bricks are not right for brick oven cooking, or more expensive, I am not sure I see a strong advantage. Virtually all of the ovens built from the Pompeii plans use standard shape bricks, where the inward angle is set either with wedges or forms.

On Oven height, make sure your cooking floor is not so low that you have to stoop over to see in the oven. I think you are working inside the oven more with a pizza oven (setting and moving pizzas every few seconds) than you would in a commercial bread oven -- where you set the bread and come back in 30 minutes. That might be why the instructions you see for Breadbuilder's style oven might be lower. I like the oven floor up at about 42", or even more.

And lastly -- the views in the valleys south of Florence sure are pretty. The land in gentle, rolling and green. Between the olive tree, cypress, umbrella pine and the winter wheat -- it's even green in the middle of winter. There is something very relaxing about it.

Enjoy your project.
James
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  #18  
Old 10-20-2006, 06:13 AM
Journeyman
 
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by james
Hendo, can you take a photo of a tapered brick? I'm having trouble getting a mental picture of how they would work. If you could stack a couple of them, and post the photo, that would help me see how this might go.
James
James,

See photo at http://www.consolidatedrefractories.com.au/dense.htm

This company stocks fire bricks manufactured by the same firm which sells the "kit" that Carioca has spoken about. I assume that the white ones towards the left of the photo are, or are similar to, the tapered bricks in the kit.

If so, they would require cutting accurately in half along their length to use in the dome. This would then obviate the need for wedges during construction, provided the angle of the taper was exactly that required for the diameter of oven under construction.

I will endeavour to contact the local distributor of these tapered bricks next week to confirm.
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  #19  
Old 10-22-2006, 05:28 PM
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Default cut

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendo

If so, they would require cutting accurately in half along their length to use in the dome. This would then obviate the need for wedges during construction, provided the angle of the taper was exactly that required for the diameter of oven under construction.

I will endeavour to contact the local distributor of these tapered bricks next week to confirm.
Hendo, James, I've been told by the Darley people that the bricks are tapered across the WIDTH (i.e. from 75 mm down to 53 mm or whatever), so they'd have to be cut in half across the LENGTH od 230 mm to get to equal pieces with the same taper...

Cheers,

Carioca
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  #20  
Old 10-22-2006, 05:50 PM
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Default the dome 'kit' is round!

Hello Hendo (I believe itwas you who wondered about the shape of the oven 'kit'?!):

straight from the horse's mouth a few minutes ago and in writing - the pizza oven 'kits' are for a round dome!

The diameters are the OUTSIDE diameters.

Their 25 mm Calsil insulation board is considered more than adequate - you'd pay double for 50 mm and gain little advantage (I'm quoting the supplyer's spokesperson, Tonia Taylor)...

Cheers,

Carioca

NB: Did you receive the forwarded BH&G article on the TUNNEL oven?
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