#11  
Old 06-20-2007, 12:00 PM
james's Avatar
Brick Oven Merchant
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pebble Beach, CA
Posts: 4,648
Default Re: Vermiculite prices

Hi Joe,

A quick response, then more on the types of vermiculite.

Our commercial oven builders put more insulation above the apex of the dome, which is where most of the heat is stored -- than they do on the sides.

Vermiculite as a way of managing family relations. I've never tried that, but it's an excellent idea. Thanks for that.
James
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-20-2007, 12:06 PM
JoeT62's Avatar
Apprentice
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 174
Default Re: Vermiculite prices

Well let's see, vermiculite is used in pools, gardens, home insulation, pizza ovens, aquariums, and now as a way of getting out of hanging with the in-laws.

It truly is a miracle substance.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-07-2007, 07:50 PM
Serf
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Altoona Pa
Posts: 1
Default Re: Vermiculite prices

I just built an oven and as I was searching for vermiculite I went to the place that sold me the firebricks. They did not have vermiculite but, they had a product called pool base that is mixed with concrete to insulate pools. It was only $9 a 4 cubic ft bag (in central Pa) and, it did mix good with the concrete.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-09-2007, 12:08 PM
janprimus's Avatar
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bellingham Washington
Posts: 144
Default Re: Vermiculite prices

I got perlite which is pretty darn close to vermiculite and it was only 11 bucks at Home Depot. Close enough for me...
__________________
Renaissance Man
Wholly Man
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-30-2007, 09:01 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 44
Default Re: Vermiculite prices

I found Perlite at the local brick and masonry supply retailer. It is used as insulation in cinder blocks. I paid $7.00 for 4 cf bag.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-31-2007, 08:33 AM
CanuckJim's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Prince Albert, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,479
Default Re: Vermiculite prices

KC and all,

I had a very interesting meeting with a refractory supplier yesterday. He deals mainly with companies building furnaces and boilers, but he has also sold into the Italian community to people building their own pizza ovens. The good thing is that it looks like I've finally solved the refractory supply dilemma here in the Toronto/southern Ontario area, because he stocks cal sil board, refractory batt in thicknesses up to four inches, refractory tile, tapered and arch bricks, castable high heat mortar, refractory mortar (dry and premixed). All very cool. We're still working on a pricing structure for the small amounts I would need.

The most interesting part of the meeting came when he introduced me to Matrilite 18, a product I'd never heard about. It's "a lighweight insulating castable designed for general purpose duty at moderate operating temperatures. Common applications include air heaters, combustion chambers of indirectly fired dryers and door linings. Matrilite 18 can also be used as backup for dense refractory furnace roofs, marine and stationary boilers." Well, moderate, for those guys; see below.

The maximum exposed use temperature is 815 C, while the maximum backup use temperature is 982 C (note this is in centigrade). According to him, this product would be a far more efficient insulator than the perlite/vermiculite Portland mix we've all used because Portland reduces the insulating properties of the dry material, and the dry material itself is not that good an insulator by comparison. After heating to 815 C, Matrilite has a thermal conductivity of 1.53 Btu-in/hr-ft 2-F. The cold crush strength after after the same heating is 1080 psi.

The major components are 39 percent CaO and 35 percent Si02. There are much smaller percentages of other materials, none of which means anything to me.

Right now, it looks like a 25 lb bag will cost about $25 CDN, but I'm not sure just yet. This stuff is light, so the bag is large. Seems to me that this would be the perfect material for coating Insulfrax batts or directly on brick. The rep told me that 2 inches of Matrilite would be far better than 4 inches of vermic/Portland.

The US distributor is Allied Mineral Products, 3025 Mineral Loop, Brownsville, Texas, 1-614-878-0244. No doubt there's a website; this is a multinational company.

In Ontario, the dealer is Alphatherm Inc., 8201 Keele Street, Unit 4, Concord, Ontario L4K 1Z4, 1-905-738-0126, Welcome to Alphatherm Inc. - About Us.

I was given a complimentary bag of Matrilite, and I'll be mixing up a small batch in the next few days and report on performance. Of course, I'm in no way connected to any of these companies, and I can only speculate on performance until I've tried it. If it works, it's just in time because I have three and possibly four FB oven installations to do in the coming weeks. I was told that with two inches of batt insulation and two inches of Matrilite, the need for loose material to fill the enclosure would be eliminated. We'll see.

Jim
__________________
"Made are tools, and born are hands"--William Blake, 1757-1827
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-31-2007, 08:44 AM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 44
Default Re: Vermiculite prices

Do you mix the Matrilite with anything? How do you apply it?
KC
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-31-2007, 09:05 AM
CanuckJim's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Prince Albert, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,479
Default Re: Vermiculite prices

KC,

Should have included mixing details. Matrilite comes in dry form, with a grain size of 2mm (10 mesh) and finer. The instructions on the bag say 25 pounds should be mixed with 2.9 lbs of potable water (96 percent hydration). The ambient mixing temp should be above 68 F. For optimum consistency, water should be added gradually. Mix time is four minutes. Working time is 30 minutes. The description talks about vibration or gunning the material, so I imagine it would trowel on pretty well. With a half hour open time, smaller batches would be best for one man, unless you're quick.

I'll know better about workablity when I mix some up. I'll post pics. Thinking about retrofitting my heat plug door (the one I use to retain heat overnight) with a two inch thick layer.

The cure procedures look just about the same as the ones we've been using for oven curing. Small increments of heat with cooling in between for max strength. Though this would not apply over batt insulation to the same extent.

Jim
__________________
"Made are tools, and born are hands"--William Blake, 1757-1827

Last edited by CanuckJim; 07-31-2007 at 09:10 AM. Reason: Incomplete
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-31-2007, 11:52 AM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 44
Default Re: Vermiculite prices

Thanks Jim,
I'm very interested in the product. I think if the product works as advertised, it would be a great $ saver.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-01-2007, 04:59 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 15
Default Re: Vermiculite prices

Thank you Jim, Defintly touch base with them about my build I hope to do very soon.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is Vermiculite james Getting Started 8 07-09-2008 10:35 AM
Finding Vermiculite james Getting Started 13 09-09-2007 12:04 PM
Bedding brick hearth to vermiculite insulation nissanneill Getting Started 5 05-22-2007 06:41 PM
Layer of vermiculite and super isol, Good or Bad? camarina73 Pompeii Oven Construction 14 08-14-2006 11:08 AM
vermiculite mixture pam Pompeii Oven Construction 4 08-18-2005 10:26 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:24 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC