#21  
Old 04-13-2010, 07:27 AM
kebwi's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 1,010
Default Re: Some SBC questions

Yeah, I have all the official spec data you sent. The PDF is available on their website but its wording is totally ambiguous as to whether the acrylic fortifier is in addition to the water or as a substitution for some of the water.

I've also emailed them for help.

Thanks.
__________________

Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

WFO Webpage:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-13-2010, 07:36 AM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ausitn
Posts: 3,075
Default Re: Some SBC questions

Mix the fortifier with the mix water. You should not use the amount of water they say, start with 1/2, and add slowly until it is at a workable stiffness, between peanut butter and thick pancake batter. Too much water/too runny a mix is no good.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-13-2010, 07:47 AM
kebwi's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 1,010
Default Re: Some SBC questions

Forgive me Tscar but I'm going to ask you to clarify that. By mix the fortifier and the water, do you mean 1:1? When you say slowly add it, do you mean add the mixture or additional water only (I think you mean the mix)?

Thanks.
__________________

Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

WFO Webpage:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-13-2010, 08:28 AM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ausitn
Posts: 3,075
Default Re: Some SBC questions

If they give you a jar of fortifier per bag, then add the jar to approximately the amount of water they recommend, then slowly add to the dry mix. If you have a gallon of fortifier, it will tell you at which ratio to dilute, they are all different, but generally in the 1-1 range.

Also, just a general note for mixing any cementious materials. You should always add less water than you think it will take, thoroughly mix it for a few minutes, and then add small amounts of water until it is at the desired consistency. The nature of cement and aggregate is such that it will appear to be too dry until the cement and aggregate absorb free moisture, then it will "break", and become loose. It is at this point, right before it breaks when people add too much water, and it turns runny.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-21-2010, 12:02 AM
kebwi's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 1,010
Default Re: Some SBC questions

I talked to Quikrete a bit. It's fairly straight-forward: between 1 and 1.5 gallons of water per 50lb bag of SBC. The high variance is only because SBC can be sprayed however, so they expected that 1 gallon would be right for trowel application. So, I just need .5 gallon water and .5 gallon acrylic fortifier per 50lb bag.

Now, given that I need to dilute the acrylic fortifier 50/50 I'm wondering if I can dilute it ahead of time and store it in a jug and then just mix that at the proper ratio for a given amount of SBC (1gal per 50lb) during a session...or must the acrylic fortifier only be diluted right when I mix the concrete and begin applying it? Does diluting it in advance ruin it somehow?

I also asked Quikrete this, haven't heard back yet.

Thanks.
__________________

Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

WFO Webpage:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-21-2010, 03:48 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,436
Default Re: Some SBC questions

Quote:
I'm wondering if I can dilute it ahead of time and store it in a jug and then just mix that at the proper ratio for a given amount of SBC (1gal per 50lb)
Im not a scientist, But I dont see why you couldnt do that,,, I did it on the same day only because I was too close to being done.. and was too anxious... I used the liquid colorant too and had that premixed with the water...(we had that discussion the liquid colorant stinks) I am currently recoating a block wall with the sbc, and after adding the acrylic fortifier it seems to me like it actually spreads easier and finishes nicer..

cheers
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-04-2010, 11:05 AM
kebwi's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 1,010
Default Re: Some SBC questions

Okay, I'm trying to color the SBC for the remaining coats. The first coat is complete, white SBC (it also comes in gray), acrylic fortifier, pretty thin in some spots. The second coat, and perhaps partial third coat (till I run out) will be colored.

I'm using iron oxide powder pigment, two brands that I bought separately and mixed together, they were very close already.

Now I'm trying to figure out how much powder to add to the SBC. I believe the prescription is somewhere between 5% and 10% oxide powder to portland by weight, regardless of the weight of the overall stucco material. In other words, a 50lb bag of SBC containing 18lb of portland (I called Quikrete, that's what the Quikwall SBC contains) should call for .9lbs to 1.8lbs of oxide (5%-10%).

Problem is, I dry-mixed a batch already and pushed it all the way to 2lbs (11.111%, 1/9th in effect) and it still looks rather desaturated. I daren't go any higher since I have already exceeded the 10% max. Since I haven't applied any of this SBC yet, I can easily (with some math) dilute it back down again by adding more SBC.

Also bear in mind that the acrylic fortifier, a liquid which is mixed into the water, is very milky white, so the color will become yet more faded when I liquify the SBC for application, because I won't be using just water, I'll be using 50/50 this milky acrylic fortifier.

Questions:
  1. Is 10% a hard maximum? If I exceed that, even just to 11.1%, will that cause some sort of harm to the SBC? Will it not "stick" or cure or set or otherwise work properly? Do I really *need* to dilute my current 11% mix back to the prescribed range?
  2. Why am I having problem? Why does it look more faded than I expect? Is it going to get really dark when I add water and trowel it on? It will clearly get darker when water is added, but that's just a visual illusion. It'll fade back again as it dries, right? So, should I expect it to "look better" after I mix and apply it, or will it remain as faded then as it looks now, dry in a pale, and if so, how does one ever achieve rich saturated stucco colors? I don't get it.

Thanks.
__________________

Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

WFO Webpage:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-04-2010, 12:00 PM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ausitn
Posts: 3,075
Default Re: Some SBC questions

10% is a hard limit.

You can't tell what color it will be until you add water apply it and it dries for a couple of days. If you have it throughly dry mixed (very throughly), take a small amount, like a half a cup, mix it to the proper consistancy with a tiny amount of water, then smear it on a piece of plywood and let it dry in the sun and it will be preetty close to final color in ten minutes.

It is not important how much exactly you put in (for the bonding agent and the pigment(up to the limit)) the important thing is that you exactly the same in each batch as well the exact same amount of water. The best way to do it if you can't do the whole thing in one batch is to apply 2/3 of the batch, mix another one and combine them, rinse repeat. That will generally keep you on track.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-04-2010, 12:10 PM
kebwi's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 1,010
Default Re: Some SBC questions

Okay, sounds like regardless of whatever aesthetic issues I have, there is too much pigment in my current mix. I'll have to add SBC to bring back down to 10%, then make a test patch.

Thanks.
__________________

Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

WFO Webpage:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-19-2010, 02:59 PM
Dino_Pizza's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 1,015
Default Re: Some SBC questions

Keith,
How did coloring the Quikwall SBC work out? I can only find the "white" sbc in my area (only OSH carries them, HD & Lowes special orders). I wanted to buy the 'gray' color then mix with brown pigment for my dirty concrete look but it's so easy for me to pick up the 'white' at OSH. Did you find the white was harder to get to the color you wanted or does it not matter, in your opinion?
Thx, Dino
__________________
"Life is a banquet and most poor sons-of-bitches are starving to death." -Auntie Mame

View My Picasa Web Album UPDATED oct

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


My Oven Costs Spreadsheet

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


My Oven Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starting my foundation questions? Italfranco1 Pompeii Oven Construction 17 07-15-2012 04:16 PM
First Post - A Few Questions mpholland Pompeii Oven Construction 1 12-15-2008 04:54 PM
Questions on installing Toscana90 giambra Getting Started 1 10-15-2008 11:42 AM
Newbie List of Questions TBM66 Getting Started 29 03-10-2008 01:58 AM
Questions, Questions, Questions Dan94550 Tools, Tips and Techniques 28 10-23-2007 09:10 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:46 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC