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-   -   Mortaring (http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f28/mortaring-19782.html)

TCPizza 08-13-2013 08:32 AM

Mortaring
 
Should I mortar the first chain to the firebrick floor of the oven.

Toneer 08-16-2013 01:22 AM

Re: Mortaring
 
I am not an expert in oven building, so also consider other suggestions. In my opinion you have to mortar it down since you need an air tight seal around the paremetar of the 1st chain.

I also have a question: How much mortar do you apply for the flooring?
How much joint space should be left on flooring (if any)? And the same question when doing the chain?
Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCPizza (Post 159349)
Should I mortar the first chain to the firebrick floor of the oven.


deejayoh 08-16-2013 09:20 AM

Re: Mortaring
 
No, you don't need to mortar the chain to the floor. You don't need an airtight seal and the weight of the dome will hold the brick in place. You do need to mortar the bricks together on the sides. Shoot for a 1/8" joint spacing - but know that the gap will be wide at the back unless you are tapering your bricks.

Floor bricks should be pushed together as tightly as possible and do NOT use any mortar!!! Set them in sand/fireclay mix as per the instructions.

stonecutter 08-16-2013 10:25 AM

Re: Mortaring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TCPizza (Post 159349)
Should I mortar the first chain to the firebrick floor of the oven.

No need, it will break bond within the first couple firings.

texman 08-16-2013 10:46 AM

Re: Mortaring
 
ditto stonecutter and DJ-sides only.:)
texman

mrchipster 08-16-2013 05:33 PM

Re: Mortaring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toneer (Post 159551)
I am not an expert in oven building, so also consider other suggestions. In my opinion you have to mortar it down since you need an air tight seal around the paremetar of the 1st chain.

I also have a question: How much mortar do you apply for the flooring?
How much joint space should be left on flooring (if any)? And the same question when doing the chain?
Thanks

If oven dome is placed on the floor it should just set on the floor.

If floor is cut so as to fit inside the oven dome ther should be a 1/8 - 3/16 gap created by wrapping the floor in a layer of corregated card board to allow the floor to expand and not crack the dome. The void. Left by the cardboard will burn out and fill with ash. Tape over the cardboard with masking or duct tape to prevent mortar from falling into the gap

Toneer 08-17-2013 10:46 AM

Re: Mortaring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrchipster (Post 159622)
If oven dome is placed on the floor it should just set on the floor.

If floor is cut so as to fit inside the oven dome ther should be a 1/8 - 3/16 gap created by wrapping the floor in a layer of corregated card board to allow the floor to expand and not crack the dome. The void. Left by the cardboard will burn out and fill with ash. Tape over the cardboard with masking or duct tape to prevent mortar from falling into the gap

Now I know why the dome is not mortared to the floor. It needs to freely expand and contract.
What exactly should I lay the floor on? I know it's some kind of sand mixture, will I be able to buy it from a local home depot or building supplier?
Also I have heard that broken glass is a good heat insulation, is this true?
If yes, can I cover the dome and the base foundation with broken glass for heat insulation?
Thank you!

mrchipster 08-17-2013 11:13 AM

Re: Mortaring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toneer (Post 159659)
Now I know why the dome is not mortared to the floor. It needs to freely expand and contract.
What exactly should I lay the floor on? I know it's some kind of sand mixture, will I be able to buy it from a local home depot or building supplier?
Also I have heard that broken glass is a good heat insulation, is this true?
If yes, can I cover the dome and the base foundation with broken glass for heat insulation?
Thank you!

SAND IS NOT AN INSULATOR!!!!!!!! and broken glass is almost as bad.

The best product for insulating under the floor is CalSil board or ceramic board.

Many people use a mixture of Portland cement and either vermiculite or perlite.
This is not as good an insulator as ceramic board but will be far superior to glass or sand.

There is also a product called Foamglas that works very well also.

Please do further reading on this site before starting your oven you will be happy you did.

If you decide to use perlite or vermiculite with Portland cement you will want a 5-1 or 7-1 ratio of vermiculite to cement. Make note I said cement NOT concrete or sand mix.

The tandoor oven is something I am unfamiliar with and my comments relate directly to pompellii or dome ovens and my not be advised for a tandoor oven.

stonecutter 08-17-2013 11:18 AM

Re: Mortaring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toneer (Post 159659)
Now I know why the dome is not mortared to the floor. It needs to freely expand and contract.
What exactly should I lay the floor on?
You can use a mixture of fireclay/sand or even a very thin layer of sand.

I know it's some kind of sand mixture, will I be able to buy it from a local home depot or building supplier?
Masonry supply yard will have fireclay or if you have a wetsaw, cut your brick for the dome and then use the slurry that settles in the tray

Also I have heard that broken glass is a good heat insulation, is this true? No...glass bottles are marginal, but they need to be encapsulated in a non combustible material, like clay. More efficient insulation would be vermiculite or perlite mixed with portland, ceramic fiber or mineral wool board insulation.

If yes, can I cover the dome and the base foundation with broken glass for heat insulation?
See above

Thank you!

Hope that helps.

EDIT: I was typing as the above was posted. Redundant but true (my post).

Toneer 08-17-2013 12:07 PM

Re: Mortaring
 
It helped a lot.. Thank you very much!
I am planning to build an Armenian underground oven (tonir). There is a youtube video link below, which will give you and idea. And to build it I will use Italian pizza oven technology. The oven by shape is 35-47" tall wine barrel with 24" diameter (opening).

Is there a specific type of sand I would want to use for the flooring?
What do you think what kind of insulation should I use for the oven, that's both effective and cost efficient?
Thanks again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkfcO_Pz0cY
Quote:

Originally Posted by stonecutter (Post 159664)
Hope that helps.

EDIT: I was typing as the above was posted. Redundant but true (my post).



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