Go Back   Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community > Pizza Oven Design and Installation > Tools, Tips and Techniques

Like Tree1Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 07-06-2012, 04:25 AM
nissanneill's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 1,877
Thumbs up Re: How to make a wooden post relatively removable from concrete

Maybe a better way whether using round or square logs is to plane or cut a slight taper on the bottom, pour the concrete and 'slightly wobble the post before the concrete has set. You might also smear the lower portion of the post with grease so that the concrete doesn't stick!

Neill
__________________
Prevention is better than cure, - do it right the first time!

The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know


Neillís Pompeiii #1

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Neillís kitchen underway

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-06-2012, 08:33 AM
Laborer
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Milton, Ontario
Posts: 97
Default Re: How to make a wooden post relatively removable from concrete

I am a bit curious as to why you want to do this, but I would
1) Make a taper on the post (1/4" to 1/2" on all 4 corners)
2) re-treat the cut parts
3) wrap the thing with plastic before the pour
4) after you remove the post, cut about 1/2" off the bottom
5) retreat the cut

If you just put a square post in, either you won't be able to remove it due to twist or
other issues, or it'll be wobbly after. A tapered socket will 'self tighten'. You may find it a bit challenging to remove the first time.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-06-2012, 08:36 AM
kebwi's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 1,011
Default Re: How to make a wooden post relatively removable from concrete

Re:



Those won't work for my application. They provide virtually no lateral support, only vertical support, and are used when the pole will receive lateral support from high above, like a suspended deck or a house. My pole is free standing, like a flag pole, and needs considerable lateral strength to be free standing with minimal sway and no possibly of collapse. Furthermore, the entire purpose of the pole is to support a tall stove pipe via horizontal or diagonal rods. The strain the stove pipe exerts will be purely lateral in nature.

I can't imagine those above-ground feet could possibly work for this project. Even six foot fence posts are usually put in the ground for heaven's sake.

The question I *am* curious about is how much of a pole needs to be below ground in concrete for sufficient self-supporting strength. For metal, the typical prescription is 10%, but I have no idea for wood -- I suspect it's considerably more.

I do like the metal sleeve idea however.
__________________

Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

WFO Webpage:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Last edited by kebwi; 07-06-2012 at 08:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-06-2012, 08:39 AM
kebwi's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 1,011
Default Re: How to make a wooden post relatively removable from concrete

Quote:
Originally Posted by nissanneill View Post
Maybe a better way whether using round or square logs is to plane or cut a slight taper on the bottom, pour the concrete and 'slightly wobble the post before the concrete has set. You might also smear the lower portion of the post with grease so that the concrete doesn't stick!

Neill
Yep, I had the idea of pushing/pulling the post in the concrete to create a slightly pyramidal hole, then shimming it after it sets. And I agree about slicking it up, I'm just not sure what to use, but I agree.
__________________

Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

WFO Webpage:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-06-2012, 08:43 AM
kebwi's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 1,011
Default Re: How to make a wooden post relatively removable from concrete

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingy View Post
I am a bit curious as to why you want to do this, but I would
1) Make a taper on the post (1/4" to 1/2" on all 4 corners)
2) re-treat the cut parts
3) wrap the thing with plastic before the pour
4) after you remove the post, cut about 1/2" off the bottom
5) retreat the cut

If you just put a square post in, either you won't be able to remove it due to twist or
other issues, or it'll be wobbly after. A tapered socket will 'self tighten'. You may find it a bit challenging to remove the first time.
It's not a bad idea. Do I need to retreat pressure-treated wood? The "treatement" doesn't go all the way through the wood? I can't just paint the stuff on, it's done in a gigantic kiln or something like that to the best of my understanding...but I thought it went all the way through anyway.

Good idea about the tapered cut. I can considered something along those lines but was a little weary of long precise cuts (1/4" of two or three feet is a precise cut) as I lack the necessary hardware. But I might try something along those lines...the approach has a lot of benefits as you pointed out.

Cheers!
__________________

Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

WFO Webpage:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-06-2012, 06:18 PM
Neil2's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 1,374
Default Re: How to make a wooden post relatively removable from concrete

"Dont you guys have these over there?"

Yes Al, we do. If fact building codes require these or similar fasteners for fixing posts to concrete. Sinking a wooden post (even a pressure treated post) into concrete is not a proper solution any more.

If you want to deal with bending moment using a single post, the preferred solution is a steel angle or channel with the post bolted to it.

Last edited by Neil2; 07-06-2012 at 06:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-06-2012, 06:29 PM
nissanneill's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 1,877
Thumbs up Re: How to make a wooden post relatively removable from concrete

Quote:
Good idea about the tapered cut. I can considered something along those lines but was a little weary of long precise cuts (1/4" of two or three feet is a precise cut) as I lack the necessary hardware. But I might try something along those lines...the approach has a lot of benefits as you pointed out.
When I suggested the taper, I was thinking how I would do it, (even though I have a lot of large and sophisticated equipment) as it would be a lot easier to use a power hand planer on the flat sides,
However, if you were using round posts, well, it becomes much more challenging, but I would still use a hand power planer and/or an angle grinder with a coarse sanding disc in it. Plane two opposite sides and then draw the taper that you require on these smooth surfaces and then plane down to your lines. When done, draw your taper for the remaining sides and plane to your lines. It might also be advisable to put a small chamfer on the sharp edges.

Quote:
Do I need to retreat pressure-treated wood? The "treatement" doesn't go all the way through the wood? I can't just paint the stuff on, it's done in a gigantic kiln or something like that to the best of my understanding...but I thought it went all the way through anyway.
If you cut a little off from the bottom of the post, it will slip down very tightly into your concrete and possibly be quite difficult to remove. I would only cut a little off the base if the post became loose in the 'sleeved' base.

kebwi
Treated pine (CCA Copper Chrome Arsenate) or the original terminology in Australia was "Permapine" is pressure treated in a large 'pressure vessel' like a long pressure cooker, and yes, the preservative penetrates all the way through the log, so you don't have to aint" it with anything. The only other preservative that I an familiar with that is applied by brush is Creosote, that black smelly and sometime sticky material.

Neill
__________________
Prevention is better than cure, - do it right the first time!

The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know


Neillís Pompeiii #1

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Neillís kitchen underway

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by nissanneill; 07-06-2012 at 06:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-06-2012, 09:47 PM
kebwi's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 1,011
Default Re: How to make a wooden post relatively removable from concrete

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil2 View Post
Sinking a wooden post (even a pressure treated post) into concrete is not a proper solution any more.

If you want to deal with bending moment using a single post, the preferred solution is a steel angle or channel with the post bolted to it.
Oh, ugh, that's the first I've heard of anything like that. Rats. I've talked to lots of folks about this (like the employees at the lumber yard for example) and no one has mentioned anything like that. Come to think of it, the fence we had put around our entire yard this spring doesn't have those above-ground feet. The posts go into the concrete into the ground.

Gee whiz. There's always an argument that the approach I'm about to take, whatever it is, is wrong. I've been leaning back toward the metal pipe idea anyway, it's just much more expensive and more difficult to work with...and I still don't know what size pipe would be sufficient.

I'll figure something out.
__________________

Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

WFO Webpage:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-06-2012, 09:55 PM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ausitn
Posts: 3,143
Default Re: How to make a wooden post relatively removable from concrete

Just do it like I said and move on. No big deal. If you are doing a 6' post, 2' deep, for a 12' post 3', for a 20' post 4'. What matters will be the concrete you pour around it. Make it a spread footing if it is over 10', at least 3-4 foot wide, 1' deep for a 20' post.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-06-2012, 10:39 PM
kebwi's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 1,011
Default Re: How to make a wooden post relatively removable from concrete

Sorry, thanks. I type without thinking sometimes. 'ppreciate all the help.
__________________

Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

WFO Webpage:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Concrete mixer basics dmun Getting Started 11 06-05-2009 06:48 PM
First Post - A Few Questions mpholland Pompeii Oven Construction 1 12-15-2008 05:54 PM
Alternative to concrete block foundation ekah Getting Started 6 12-02-2008 07:56 AM
Curing Concrete and Masonry Xabia Jim Tools, Tips and Techniques 21 03-31-2008 03:15 PM
Time to Cure the concrete. asudavew Tools, Tips and Techniques 12 09-19-2007 10:03 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:17 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
© 2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC