Damon's (BT) first bread attempt etc.

[Bacterium]

here are some pics of the bread I took last night - the breads pictured are a day old.

The rectangular loaf at the back is half eaten (even my fussy 4yr old liked it) but I was very happy as it rose nicely, and no doughy sections at all. This dough was mixed in the breadmaker......I had to play it safe so the kids had fresh bread the next morning.

Now the Ciabatta's (long oval looking bread) I did the dough myself but it turned out a bit flat. It seemed to go wrong when I got to the final proof. When the 4 dough pieces where on the trays for the final proof (just before baking) it seemed to flatten out......Is this because I should have had them in individual containers or that my dough was too soft or something?

Oven temp when I removed the loaves was 400F.....I'm guessing it should be more like 500F. What effect does it have at cooking at a lower temp...sure it takes longer but is the final product worse.

Next time I might set it up my cooking probe so that it gives the the internal temp of one of the loaves.....or check it as I pull them out at least.

[Dutchoven]

The bread looks good in many ways. Good color on both, dense crumb on the pan loaf. I am confused ab bit when you say(about the ciabatta), "When the 4 dough pieces where on the trays for the final proof (just before baking) it seemed to flatten out." Are these baking sheets you are describing? Did you bake them on those same trays? Can you take a picture when you cut through the center of that ciabatta?
Best
Dutch

Originally Posted by Bacterium

here are some pics of the bread I took last night - the breads pictured are a day old.

The rectangular loaf at the back is half eaten (even my fussy 4yr old liked it) but I was very happy as it rose nicely, and no doughy sections at all. This dough was mixed in the breadmaker......I had to play it safe so the kids had fresh bread the next morning.

Now the Ciabatta's (long oval looking bread) I did the dough myself but it turned out a bit flat. It seemed to go wrong when I got to the final proof. When the 4 dough pieces where on the trays for the final proof (just before baking) it seemed to flatten out......Is this because I should have had them in individual containers or that my dough was too soft or something?

Oven temp when I removed the loaves was 400F.....I'm guessing it should be more like 500F. What effect does it have at cooking at a lower temp...sure it takes longer but is the final product worse.

Next time I might set it up my cooking probe so that it gives the the internal temp of one of the loaves.....or check it as I pull them out at least.

[CanuckJim]

Baterium, Dutch,

Several variables here, so I'll do my best. The secondary rise time is based on an average room temp of around 76 F. It might be that you're dealing with higher temps, and therefore your secondary (and bulk) fermentation times will be shorter. The pic tells me that the dough was a bit overfermented, hence the flatness. (Ideally, you want to bake the loaves at about 80 per cent of full rise.) But, and it's a large one, for Ciabatta and similar high hydration breads, your hearth temp should be in the 500-550 range when the loaves are loaded. This will give you maximum spring and better volume; also, it will shorten your bake time. For the sake of example, let's say the bake time is 22 minutes on a 550 hearth for an internal temperature of 205 F. Before you load the loaves, the oven should be steamed for about ten seconds or so (depending on the size of the oven) and the door closed. After you load the loaves, the oven should be steamed again for the same length of time. Halfway through the bake, or at 11 minutes in this example, the door should be removed for about ten seconds to vent the steam, then put back on so the crust will develop properly.

I'd really suggest that you load your loaves directly onto the brick if at all possible. If you're using baking parchment, just put the parchment and the loaf on the peel and slide both in. The paper will brown but not burn. Loading high hydration loaves directly onto a floured peel is tricky and takes practice, but it can be done.

Having said all that, what I'm recommending here takes the form of improvements. You're doing fine; just a few tweaks to go and a bit more experience.

Cheers,
Jim

[Dutchoven]

Jim...your experience is humbling. I never gave thought to the fact that they might have been over risen. The other steps we had used but I thought for sure that there was some other reason for the lack of volume in that ciabatta.
Thanks for the great advice once again! My ciabatta will certainly improve.
Best
Dutch

[Bacterium]

thanks Jim.......that all makes sense. I never thought of overise/overfermenting. It does make sense when I go back over my process. Seeing that its winter here I have been leaving the rise periods for slighlty longer to compensate - but obviously too long.

Yes that Ciabatta was baked on an oven tray - but I'll refine my handling process next time and get it onto the oven floor.

All things considered the flavour of the Ciabatta is quite nice. I ended up slicing it up lengthy ways through the middle and filled them with ham, cheese, capsicum(peppers) & pineapple. I sat them on the grill plate at work and it was just the best lunch.

...aaaahhhhh thanks guys my eyes have been opened on how to achieve great bread.


I'm doing a mid week bake tonight of some No-Knead with a better quality flour (we call it a bakers flour)....rather than the unbleached/organic supermarket stuff I was using. The particular brand I used did have the milling date (I have noticed some Australian supermarket flours actually do have the mill date ).

[Bacterium]

Ok...last night was my last baking before I put the render over all the insulated part of my ovendome. Armed with some of the above advice I baked 4 loaves in my oven last night:

1. Round loaf with split top - No-Knead dough recipe, baked in dutch oven, within pizza oven.
2. Rectangular loaf - No-Knead dough, rectangular baking tray - open top
3. Fruit bread, dough was breadshop premix and the dough was made in the bread machine - Cheating I know but this was for the wife so it had to suceed.
4. same dough as 1 and 2 but I cooked it directly on the hearth. Intersting comparison.

All breads were a success (for me) and tasted great. Gave me a big boost of confidence to now get back to the ciabatta's. Oven was a constant 204C/400F probably a bit low but first time I've removed all coals - nearly got it right.

Fire away with you observations as I'm always open to then and your great advice.

Thanks Jim and Dutch

[Bacterium]

3 - fruit bread and 4 - hearth loaf

[CanuckJim]

Bacterium,

No looking back now. From the crust and the crumb of these loaves, I'd say you're very well on your way. A nice job all round. Look at the volume and structure on all your loaves. Well done. You are very ready for a retry on the Ciabatta. Just remember that it will not tolerate a lot of handling during loading.

Congrats,

Jim

[Dutchoven]

Excellent, nice loaves of bread you have there. Very appetizing! Congrats to you from me also. I am about to be busy preparing for this weeks Farmer's Market. I think I will to try that NoKnead recipe...looks like fun and a bit less work. In another thread it was said baking bread is like tennis or golf, no matter how good you get at it you always want to get better!
Best
Dutch
P.S. If you haven't done this give it a try, spread the hot coals out across the entire floor of the oven before you clear them. This will soak a bit more heat into the floor and will help to maintain floor temps and should extend your baking time since the floor bricks tend to recharge the oven a bit more than the dome bricks do
Best
Dutch

[Bacterium]

Thanks Jim and Dutch
yeah its great fun, espescially as all the bread got eaten by family pretty quick.

yeah the no-knead recipe (in the bread book) is great starting point.

Well I better put my head down for a few days and get my oven coating finished.....thanks again