#11  
Old 01-31-2011, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Defiantly keep warning them off the wet pre-mix. It is not suitable for a Pompeii style oven.

It wasn't the design of the entry itself that failed, it was the lack of buttressing for the low arch.
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  #12  
Old 01-31-2011, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Sorry Greg to see and hear here what happened to your oven. I hope this doesn't high jack this post but I have a question on an earlier comment that I may have miss understood....
"Doing things like soaking the highly absorptive firebrick and mixing the mortar somewhat wet for workability and potlife decrease bond strength and should be avoided."

I am thinking to when I built my first oven I soaked my bricks before cutting and mortaring them in place as I thought this was to help stop the bricks from drying out the mortar too quickly. I am I just reading into the quote here wrongly and the advise is for something else regarding moisture and brick.....Its been 2 years since I have thought about details of the oven build but I am now in the middle of planning another build and just want to make sure I am on the right track..........wayne
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

The technical term is "saturated surface dry". Here is an explanation:

Concrete Technology | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs): Saturated Surface Dry | Portland Cement Association (PCA)

The brick should be dampened to some extent depending upon conditions, but never soaked, which would imply saturation.
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Note that that is an explanation of the term, not it's applicability to our application. For that, read this:

Reinforced masonry engineering ... - Google Books
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Oh the humanity indeed. Give us hope. Tell us your going to rebuild!
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmun View Post

I don't think you can blame the flared entry..
I agree with this David. It's been done w/ no problems - I wish I had done that. But, mechanically, I can see if the arch was compromised (low arch with no lateral support), with the weight of the flu stack and brick, that it could conceivably pull the rest in with it. Its like when they demo a building - blow the supports and the whole damn thing comes down.
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

Too much weight on that flat arch with no lateral support caused it to collapse.
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  #18  
Old 02-01-2011, 12:06 PM
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Default Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

I don't think that the failure of the arch was the sole cause of the failure of the dome. Certainly it did precipitate the collapse, but there was very low bond strength in the mortar. Several days before the crash, I walked around the oven and noted the poor adhesion of the mortar to the bricks (several were loose and moved in place) and found that it would flake off if I dug into it with a fingernail. In fact, I just took another look and much of the mortar crumbles and turns to powder at the touch. One of the rows in the dome simply separated from the brick below it leaving no speck of mortar on the lower row.

On the positive side, it makes cleaning the bricks for reuse quite easy.

Greg
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

If you paid a mason to do this work, shouldn't he have some responsibility to have done it correctly? I did notice the interior pictures looked quite good (no joints lining up).
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Oh, the Humanity!!

In a static structure, the mortar has such a low required strength that it would probably never have been an issue. It did not remain static. I have seen hundred plus year old buildings where I could literally tear a rock out of the wall with my hands, but the building was structurally fine, although in need of eventual remediation.
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