#61  
Old 08-13-2011, 03:19 PM
Peasant
 
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Default Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

If I am constructing a similar opening wall, would there be any downside to putting a simple steel bar across the opening to support that central area? My biggest concern is the differential expansion and contraction of metal in a heated brick joint; does anyone have any experience with making this secure, or will it all just eventually crack and need to be re-cemented (if possible) over time?
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  #62  
Old 08-13-2011, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by luca View Post
If I am constructing a similar opening wall, would there be any downside to putting a simple steel bar across the opening to support that central area? My biggest concern is the differential expansion and contraction of metal in a heated brick joint; does anyone have any experience with making this secure, or will it all just eventually crack and need to be re-cemented (if possible) over time?
Or, do a Welsh arch like this one over a vent.

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  #63  
Old 08-13-2011, 06:41 PM
Peasant
 
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Default Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

It's a good idea, but won't work here since the adjoining bricks are also poorly supported, and the expanse is over the 9 inch length of a regular brick (see the above picture again). This leads me back to the steel lintel as the only practical support structure. Any other ideas out there? By the way, you can see my build progress at:
Pictures by Conteparker - Photobucket
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

Just looked at your pics, looks doable to me?
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Old 08-13-2011, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

What about casting a lintel out of Castable refractory? I used angle iron in my first oven to form a square opening, and although the angle was in good shape upon demolition the bricks and mortar around it certainly showed signs of damage from thermal expansion. Nothing horrible, but some large pieces of mortar had cracked and broken off and a few bricks were ever so slightly loose. For my new oven I cast the entire entry area out of KS-4V plus and although the oven isn't yet complete it was a nice material to work with and I feel the result will be much sturdier.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:05 AM
Peasant
 
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Default Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

I appreciate the input about your first oven and the angle iron; that's what I'm concerned about. As for the "castable refractory," is that the same as the fireclay and mortar mix, or is it completely different? (I'm in Vermont, so my options for supplies are pretty limited.) Regarding Brickie's comment that the Welsh arch still looks doable--which is by far the easiest option--do you think the limited brick surface area under each end of the Welsh arch in this situation is enough to support that arch (I suppose I could dry fit it and see if it collapses on me without the mortar in place; good idea?)
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

Quote:
As for the "castable refractory," is that the same as the fireclay and mortar mix, or is it completely different?
Completely different. The homebrew mortar mix you mention is just that: mortar to put bricks together. Castable refractory concrete is one of hundreds of commercial mixes used in various kiln and furnace application. They come from refractory dealers, not brickyards.
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  #68  
Old 08-16-2011, 03:55 AM
Peasant
 
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Default Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

Alan Scott ( one of the authors of the Bread Builders and masonry ovens) uses angle iron in all of his barrel vault ovens at the mouth of the oven. Can't imagine it would be a problem after all of his builds.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

The fornobravo plans used to use it to. I think there is a reason it "used to". I had no concerns using it when I built because I had seen it done before, but it was certainly an issue, and you would have never known it was so bad if you didn't demo the oven and see the other side. From the interior it looked ok.
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: My Modified Barrel Vault in Texas

The thermal expansion of steel and concrete are virtually identical so I guess that would also go for brickwork. The trouble is the steel is in a place where it's going to get hot first and being a much better conductor, will expand before the brickwork has time to heat up. Many builders have used steel lintels and not reported problems, but if you are concerned then maybe leave a little space either end of the angle iron so it has room to move without placing stress on the brickwork.
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