Jake's In Mass (Started July 3, 2011)

[PizzaIdiot]

Hi Jake,
I started out with the KISS principle. My mind wanders and then reality kicks me and I'm back in KISS-land. So I'm trying to stay with it. I don't have the time, money or skill to much more than that. I try to live vicariously through the works of others - LOL.
I spent an hour trying to figure out the angles for each course. But first I wanted to go back and look at parabolic and elliptic arch profiles - blah, blah, blah. Here's a picture. It doesn't help that i have my PhD in engineering.
Parabolic should do a better job of focusing the radiant heat, but this oven will be so hot, I don't think it will matter much. Plus I like the elliptic (Neapolitan) look better. Then again, the hemispherical shape (Tuscan) is the easier to build - just set the indispensible tool and go - LOL. Decisions, decisions...

From everything I've found here, it really won't matter - just have sufficient thermal mass, insulation in the right places, stagger the joints and a have good attitude (or at least a bottle of red wine -preferably a good one) and everyone will enjoy the pizza. It's not rocket science, but it is something that I want to build myself (with the kids' help, as offered).

Jake, you are right about the cost of the dome - 300 bricks and some home brew. If I screw it up, I can re-use the bricks and redo it. I'll be afraid to close it up until I'm sure it's not going to crack (at least not too much). That's still a month or two away.

My neighbor loaned his 10" brick saw to someone who's not using it, so I'm hoping I can get it from him later this week. He does tile work and when the blade dulls, it's relegated to brick work. I haven't seen it yet. i hope I'm not disappointed, but the price is right!

I'm not going to worry about the heat break between the dome and arch/entry; part of the KISS principle! I'll leave a small gap 1/8" between the entry and my granite landing.

I can't wait to get to the fun part!

-jeff

[jatsrt]

Jeff, understood on the engineering brain-se. I am looking for cooking much more than just pizza, so to me the best "general purpose" shape is the hemisphere with at least a 1/2 brick soldier row to give some hight to work with in the oven. I think you are right that the heat saturation and fire burning will produce pretty decent temperatures no matter what the actual shape. Not too sure if any of those would effect airflow and hot/cold spots, probably not.

As I start building I'll adjust, I completely modeled the oven in SketchUp first and worked on it over and over tweaking, especial the entry way into the oven. I'm still on the fence as to an arch or a straight top using angle iron. I actually like the look of a rectangular entry better and think it would be more utilitarian.

I'm gearing up to start putting down my floor this weekend, I'm going to build the dome on top of the floor and not run the floor to the dome, way too much skill and cutting involved in that.

I'm trying to minimize cuts as much as possible, I grabbed a 14" cutoff from Harbor Freight and put a "decent" blade on it. Hopefully it will work out, I am well within my 30 day return policy :-)

[jatsrt]

Separate reply to talk about the start of the oven.

I've attached sample photos from the bricks that I can supply locally. About $1.60 a brick. I have two suppliers, one sells just red, but has two sizes, the other sells red and yellow, but has only one size.

If you look at the pictures, there is a significant difference in quality between the two. All the sample yellow bricks I purchases had very clean edges and did not seem to chip very easily. All of the red bricks I purchased seemed to have rougher edges that have worn easily. Both weigh about the same.

I'm assuming there is really no chemical or structural difference between them and it is all just "coloring", but I feel safer with the yellow.

I think overall I like the yellow bricks better and will just go with those.

Also, I managed to source fireclay after a little hunting. I talked to the masonry suppliers and they could all get it as a special order and it was quite expensive. After some googling and calling around I managed to find a local pottery supply company selling 50# bags of Hawthorn 40 for $13 each. Sounded great to me. They had other fire clays too, actually quite a few, but it seems hawthorn is a good choice. If you are in the Boston, MA or Portland, ME area check them out. Portland Pottery

[Lburou]

Jake

You sound like an analytical person. As you consider all the data, there IS one thing I would try to disuade you about.

Its about using sailor courses exclusively, NOT a soldier course. You can go up as far as you wish to provide the head space for bread -or any other food- using sailor courses.

By using a sailor course you will be leaving MORE overlap of the bricks opposing the courses above and below (the bond). That will mean fewer cracks as time goes by. Wish I had listened to dmun on this :wish I could do it over:

Regards

[jatsrt]

Lee,
That does seem to make sense, much more uniform with straight sailors. The soldier course definitely introduces many seams in the first course. I think I'll cut enough brick for the first two courses, dry fit it and see how it feels when I get there. Though I am starting to be convinced :-).

Overall as long as it keeps the design simple, I am all for it. This would not add any extra complication.

Thanks

[jatsrt]

Well Aunt Irene is coming to visit this weekend, so I don't think I'll be able to get anything done. I did, however, grab some bricks yesterday for a test fit. I just dry fit them together to see how it is going to go. My insulation layer is very even, so should just need to mix up the sand/clay I bought and tap them in. Going to wait for some dry weather though.

Oh, and in case you are wondering, I am going to remove the PVC pipe from the middle. That is where my kiln ceramic sheath will be coming from, with access to replace it and other thermocouples. They will be secured in, but removable, then packed with ceramic insulation. It is a 3/4" hole right though the hearth.

[JOSHUAFINANCIAL]

Jake - this is about the coolest thing, ever. It's not for me - although I love gadgets and Android - I'm looking forward to old-timey rustic cooking and just "getting the feel" of my oven. But I just had to tell ya' you're amazing.
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/imag...tor/smilie.gif

Originally Posted by jatsrt

So, here is a little something different. Looking at a lot of posts about Thermocouples. While I understand the "get to know" your oven mentality, I plan on using my over a lot for bread and longer roasts too, so more data on the temperature profile will be well worth it.

So, in true nerd fashion and not wanting to pay for a commercial unit. I came up with the attached schematic and board design capable of monitoring up to six thermocouples. Could easily be less by not populating the parts, or more by changing the schematic some.

There is no interface to this, it is powered with a rechargeable LiPo battery and has a bluetooth connection. I have written a simple Android application to communicate with it allowing me to calibrate and view temperatures, as well as log the temperature over time.

If anyone else is interested in the electronics part of this let me know and I can post more information.

[PizzaIdiot]

Jake,
Is there a reason you oriented your herringbone pattern the way you did?
From other posts (which I can't find quickly), I'm orienting my 90 degrees from the way you layed yours out. Sounds like it's less likely to catch the peel.

It probably doesn't matter, but I was curious.

Thanks,
-jeff

[jatsrt]

OK, some thoughts on tools.

I read a lot of posts about the tools people choose, from super expensive wet cutters, to super cheap and everything in between.

I decided I would try the lower cost options and see how it worked for me.

So what am I using:
1. Makita 4.5" Grinder - Not cheap, but borrowed from my stepfather so it was "free".
2. 14" Cut-Off Saw from Harbor Freight - Cheap, and good return policy if it doesn't work.
3. 14" Abrasive Masonry Wheel - $8 from Home Depot - Since abandoned for #4
4. 14" Diamond Masonry blade from Harbor Freight

So, what have I learned so far? Diamond blade, even a cheaper one makes a huge difference. Difference of a hot knife through leather and a hot knife through butter. The abrasive is just not a good option. The cut-off saw is doing the trick, but a little more HP would work better.

[jatsrt]

Here are some pictures from this weekend's project. Some notes:

1. Fire clay and sand - Probably used about 20# or each or less. Bought 2 50# bags of each, oh well at least they were cheap.

2. I am not a perfectionist. My floor edges are not perfect, but I have a grinder if they end up being a problem.

3. Diamond Blade goes through the bricks 1000% easier than an abrasive blade

4. Having your brother help makes everything much faster

5. Center brick is removable and will be replaced later with a thermocouple "enabled" brick

6. I have no idea if I did the herring bone pattern right, but looks good to me, again planning on a grinder helping out if not.


The bricks in front are just for fit and I will be cleaning that up later.

Now I actually need some mortar to set these bad boys.