#11  
Old 09-09-2005, 07:44 PM
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Default small ovens

Forno Bravo sells a 31.4 inch oven, the casa 80 (cm), so it can't be a completely impossible size. One US vendor, superior clay, sells an 18 inch oven, but I don't know what you would bake in it, a cupcake?

http://www.superiorclay.com/oven/articleoven.html

That said, almost everybody here who has made the Pompeii oven has made the 42 inch size. I think, for my own use, that would be too big and I have done drawings for the 36 inch. As I've written elsewhere on this forum, I'm not convinced that the dome as designed is too thick, and you could pick up a couple of inches on each side by making a half-thickness dome, like the modular ones.

I think that part of the problem with small ovens would be that with the door big enough to get anything in and out, it would be too big a hole in terms of heat loss. I know that in my work with electric kilns, the area near the door is always a "cold" spot.

Maybe James could jump in here and report the experiences that customers have had with the Casa 80.
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  #12  
Old 09-09-2005, 08:32 PM
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if you look back far enough in the older threads, you'll find where this same question was asked (in the title of a thread), and a good answer. i believe the answer was that 30" is as small as you would want to go and still retain an adequate opening that will vent properly.
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  #13  
Old 09-09-2005, 08:59 PM
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Default Is this the quote for "the answer was that 30" is as small as you would want "

(M) Paul, is this the quote you sought?

================================================== =====
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammyweb
I am beginning the design of a Pizza Oven and BBQ grill combination. However, I do not have a lot of space.

The total floor area is around 180x120cm (180 could be extended slightly if needed).

Any advice for fitting in such a space would be gratefully recieved.

Also - does anyone have advice for sourcing fire bricks in the UK. I could just order them from a builders merchant, but I would like to build the entire thing from reclaimed materials if I can.

Thanks in advance.

James
=================================================

Here's my idea on minimum oven size. If it is possible, I would try to "fit" a 30 internal oven floor. I installed a 26.5" prefab a while ago as an experiment, and for me, it was too small. There wasn't room for the fire and food at the same time, and the ratio of oven volume to oven opening was out of kilter because the minimum oven open to fit pans and food was too big relative to the oven size. It did not hold heat very well.

Here's my math for minimum size from side to side (in inches, if that's OK).

30" Oven floor
9" Wall thickness (both sides)
8" Insulation (both sides)
1-2" Upper walls

That gives me 48"-49". What do you think?

A prefab would know 4-5" off that because the walls are thinner.

James

================================================== ===

Ciao,

Marcel
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  #14  
Old 09-10-2005, 12:11 AM
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that's it.
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Old 09-10-2005, 04:05 AM
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Default Looks like I will be getting creative today

With all of that being said, my concern was the ratio of the open door to the actual cooking/heating area. I may end up pouring a bit more concrete now to support a larger footprint for the oven. Originally I had designed the oven with an angled front to it, but as I started dry fitting the angled front yesterday, I realized how amateur of a mason I am. I can only imagine that trying to fit in these strange angles with a square block will only create a weak structure which will be filled with gaps and even holes. My main concern as well is that I can build an oven with a door at least wide enough to fit a standard peel into, what is the minimum door openening 14"? Thank you as always the many sets of eyes on the project.

Steffen

p.s. pictures to follow this afternoon.
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  #16  
Old 09-10-2005, 04:12 AM
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Default Door opening

Here's a good idea from the gallery:

http://www.fornobravo.com/pizza_oven...ens/Barga.html

Note the wide slot for pizza and peel at the bottom of the arch. This also lets you bring the arch farther forward, giving you more cooking area.

That said, not a trivial build. The one in the picture has a cast iron door sill.

David
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2005, 11:42 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steffen
My main concern as well is that I can build an oven with a door at least wide enough to fit a standard peel into, what is the minimum door openening 14"?
steffen, imho, you should err on the side of making the door too wide as opposed to too narrow. i often wish that my door were wider.
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  #18  
Old 09-10-2005, 11:46 AM
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Dmun,

I think the opening into the Barga oven is cool -- its a Forno Bravo commercial oven with a cast iron opening that is wide at the bottom for pizza and tall in the middle for roasts. The rest of the opening keeps in heat. In general, the opening needs to balance the need to hold in heat, and the need to put a pizza in the oven. For example, the Casa100, a 39" precast FB oven, has an opening of about 18.5"W x 12.5"H.

The restaurant oven also has that large landing in front of the opening. I am becoming a big fan of the larger landing in the front. We are pouring a custom concrete landing and arch for the demonstration kitchen in Healdsburg.

James
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2005, 05:18 PM
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Default I think I figured it out

I will be using an 18" overhand on the structure to accomodate the largest oven that is possible on this block foundation. I think all will be well once I have the block structure in place. Took a few beers and alot of head scratching to figure it out, but this is why engineering is work in progress. Pictures will follow, when the wife lets me get back in the backyard.....

She will only understand when it is all done and the za's are a flowing.....

Steffen
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  #20  
Old 09-10-2005, 07:02 PM
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I think I posted this somewhere else before, but I installed a 26" precast oven in our first Italian rental as an experiment -- and it was NOT big enough. Not enough room for both the fire and the food, and the door opening was too large relative to the volume of the oven. It had to be out of sync because the opening still had to be big enough for a pizza peel. The result was that it gave up heat way too fast. It cooled down as fast as it heated up. :-)

All in all a good lesson, and the nice family that owns the house are happy to have it and use it as a one pizza a time oven for weekends. Still, you should want to do more than that with your oven.

James
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