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  #11  
Old 07-03-2008, 09:43 AM
Puy de Dome's Avatar
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Default Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

Ok, here's the word from the horse's mouth...

The interpretation of t the fact that the Clean Air Act by my local authority is that:

My wfo is not going to contravene the Act! Ah ha!!! Big smiles to-day. Good news.

Ok, this mut be tempered by the fact that the Environmental Protection Act will affect me if I so much as get a complaint from anyone (neighbours).

So now the game is to be a canny firelighter and get it right pretty much first time.

I have now moved on to put the vermiculite layer on my oven full of hope. But I do have to do some serious thinking about a chimney, and maybe even routing errant smoke elsewhere.

If anyone wants to know, the local authority are interested in chimneys in buildings that are occupied - either industrial or domestic. The Clean Air Act (England) appears not to apply to outside fires, certainly not BBQs, chimeneas, bonfires etc.

Thanks for everyone who took an interest and good luck if you are in a Smoke Control Area in the UK and want to do a wfo.

PdD
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  #12  
Old 07-03-2008, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

I have a customer who lives in the north end of London, in a near-suburban area, and he says that at Christmastime, they sell bags of coal in the petrol stations, which people burn in their open grates, it's a holiday tradition. So clearly there are exceptions to the no-smoke rules.
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  #13  
Old 07-03-2008, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

Yes, people do burn small amounts in thier fireplaces when they shuoldn't, but it's so minimal that i doubt anyone's bothered.

What can really upset people is the regular burning of rubbish, particularly plastics, rubber etc. When done out in the open this contravenes the envrionmental protection act, but if done in a fireplace in a building contravenes the Clean Air Act.

Fire management is going to very important in my case, at least.

PdD
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  #14  
Old 07-04-2008, 01:35 AM
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Default Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

As ever, the devil is in the detail! The Clean Air Act states :

Prohibition of dark smoke from chimneys
(1) Dark smoke shall not be emitted from a chimney of any building, and if, on any day, dark smoke is so emitted, the occupier of the building shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) Dark smoke shall not be emitted from a chimney (not being a chimney of a building) which serves the furnace of any fixed boiler or industrial plant, and if, on any day, dark smoke is so emitted, the person having possession of the boiler or plant shall be guilty of an offence.


So as a WFO is not a building and neither does its chimney serve a furnace of a fixed boiler or industrial plant (unless you intend to make industrial amounts of pizzas ha ha!).

The Environmental Protection Act contains the offence of statutory nuisance, which as far as smoke is concerned is helpfully defined as

(b) smoke emitted from premises so as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance;

Although in reality this allows a pragmatic assessment to be made by the Local Authority. Good luck - I think you're right about good fire management, though maybe inviting neighbours round for an occasional pizza may go a long way!
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:45 AM
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Thumbs up Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

What is the problem here I ask?
How many of the forum members experience a lot of smoke from their ovens when they are burning?

With every firing that I have with my Pompeii, there is almost no smoke emitted from the flue especially 2 to 3 minutes after lighting. Yes, I do have a little smoke until the kindling wood catches and begins to burn fiercely with a good supply of air to the fire base.
I have 2 metal tripods that are around 3" high and a foot long that I push screwed up newspaper under, stack a reasonable amount of lightish split kindling wood over the paper (teepie style) and top it with split pine and hardwood pieces. The rougher the split wood, the qiuicker it catches and burns. See picture 1

When the paper is lit, it burns quite well, especiall when the air is directed to the base of the fire and around to the back of the fire with the plate that I trialled on the last 2 firings. (picture 2). Within 3 minutes, the fire is so hot and burning that there is no smoke emitted at all from the oven or chimney.
I then continue to add split eucalyt hardwood, (River red gum) up to around 3"x5"and a foot or so long. However, I ensure that all wood is thoroughly dead and dry. No green or freshly cut wood is used in the oven I do occasionally burn it in my slow combustion room heater when desperate without problems if used in a HOT fire..
If I want it it get going even hotter, I use a pertol leaf blower idling and pointed at the base of the oven door from around 10 feet back. The fire gets so hot that it is almost like a blast furnace and again absolutely no smoke.

Many years ago, a friend who had a 120 acre stone fruit orchard and I rolled into the ordhard a truck tyre, some kindling wood and a small newspaper. He laid the tyre down Pput the screwed up paper and kindling inside one part of the tyre and lit it. The tyre caught fire and heaps of black smoke was produced. He then chain sawed numerous self sewn walnut trees down and my job was to throw them onto the fire and smoke. The white sap dripping freshly cut green leafed tree brabches caught fire and burnt fiercly and all of the black tyre smoke disappeared. Next day, we retrieved the steel bands from the tyre and spread the wheel barrow load of ash around from the 30-40 odd trees that we burnt.

I also used to work part time for a mechanic 35 years ago and he burnt all the old sump and transmission oil through a jet and mixed with a blast of air. He used this to heat his hot water parts washer and steam cleaner, again, no smoke as soon as the system got hot.

What we derived from this is that if you get your fire going and hot, no matter what you burn, no smoke will be generated.

Neill
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  #16  
Old 09-03-2008, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

Neill, how tall is this contraption in the photos and roughly how far does it need to be inserted in the oven - close to the fire in the back?

It is a bit hard to judge for me because of the wide angle lens the photos were taken with.

The contraption looks like a very useful thing and I'll try to fabricate one - can't weld, but one can do wonders with screws ...


Thanks again,
W.

Last edited by Wlodek; 09-03-2008 at 02:38 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-03-2008, 05:32 AM
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Thumbs up Re: UK builders - planning permission/smoke control areas?

Hi Wlodek,
the contraption was a test piece of 3mm steel plate with a few pieces of 40mm rectangular tube bolted through it. It was a scrap piece but I wanted it as wide as I could fit comfortably through the oven door. The 2 pieces of tube at the top of the picture can pivot which then directs the air that is sucked into the oven between the plate and the floor further around the fire and not just into the front of it. I found that when I lite the fire across the centre of the oven, the edges and the back don't burn anywhere near a s well as the front so this can/will direct more air around the oven floor depending on where you have the 'legs' adjusted
The unit pictured is 26 x 15". To make it work a little better, try raising the height to say 4" off the floor rather than the 40mm that I currently have, (but hey, it seems to work well and gets the fire going quicker and hotter.

Neill
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