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  #61  
Old 08-25-2013, 07:13 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tochigi Prefecture, Japan
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Default Re: WHich Oven ?

Had a long discussion with the manager of the local clean center concerning the disposition of jobsite debris. He told me some of the rules. Burnable waste is any household waste including some plastics that are not specifically marked as recyclable. This can be kitchen garbage, old rags, bedding, soiled newsprint etc. that is produced by a resident living within the boundaries of the "clean center". If the same material is produced by a non-resident, the classification changes, from common garbage to construction garbage. That same material must be disposed of via a licensed garbage collection company. Then we have categories of glass- both clear and colored, plastic that is divided by type as marked and Styrofoam cups and packing materials, metal; copper, aluminum, steel, stainless, other like galvanized etc. this would include all types of electrical wire and some of the electrical equipment. this material if separated can be sold to the recycle center or to a licensed recycle company. Cardboard must be cleaned of staples, packing tape and other adhesive labels to be considered for recycle where you receive (toilet paper in payment) some areas pay for this recycle grade cardboard. Newspaper and print on non-glossy paper falls into the same category. Most people leave their paper at curbside and a company will collect it free from them. If you are licensed, you can get money for selling huge volumes of this paper. Clear plastic has some of the same rules, PET bottles need the vinyl labels removed and the plastic caps discarded with household garbage- the bottles should be clean and crushed flat. Here again huge volumes produce a modest monetary return. Finally there are things considered non-burnable: rubble, old bricks, old cement, stone, ceramic tile and things like that. Disposal of stuff like this is by the ton. If you take the time to separate this into like materials, the cost will be less and at some times zero. Reinforced concrete and block can be brought to a concrete recycle facility where it is crushed to remove reinforcement using large backhoes then run through a crushing and screening process that makes "sisae jelli". This is in turn sold as an alternative to crushed stone for making road bases--a cheaper alternative than crushed rock.



This is a big business and you need to know all the rules concerning who produces the waste to determine the correct category. Just thought some of you out there were interested in Japanese law.

Last edited by mikku; 08-28-2013 at 05:29 AM. Reason: harmony on the forum
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  #62  
Old 08-25-2013, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: WHich Oven ?

Mikku-san,

hehehehhe, are you three sheets to the wind? This makes so sense at all, even I am confused. Edit it. You don't want Brickie of Oz, to get on your case!
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  #63  
Old 08-25-2013, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: WHich Oven ?

Japanese have a bizarre attitude to rubbish. Pic shows a Tokyo rubbish truck (filthy isn't it ?) You don't see any bins. The rubbish is placed on the footpaths in white plastic bags and collected four times a week.
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  #64  
Old 08-25-2013, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: WHich Oven ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david s View Post
Japanese have a bizarre attitude to rubbish. Pic shows a Tokyo rubbish truck (filthy isn't it ?) You don't see any bins. The rubbish is placed on the footpaths in white plastic bags and collected four times a week.
You should see the trucks that pump out the cesspools, they are shined better than military shoes.
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  #65  
Old 08-25-2013, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: WHich Oven ?

The rules all have to do with "who" produces it.

If you are a normal citizen, each neighborhood has days for garbage collection and it is always divided into different categories. The schedule rotates so that the various garbage collection companies can take care of large areas by rotating their days.

I'll take a photo of the posted schedule, it is all very orderly. The grey area is when you work with construction debris or as a contractor you have various small amounts of debris that you need to dispose of.

I ran into this situation when the job that I am working on had a large amount of futon and mats used beneath futon left by the previous owner of the property when they lost the house by foreclosure. They had separated a bunch of their regular burnable garbage and just left without putting it out for collection. Now enter a remodeling company---even thought the garbage was produced by the owner of the property--they did not personally put it out for collection (they had even paid for special bags for the garbage). I put these bags into the local pick-up station box and I ended up being in violation of the local collection rules. I physically placed these bags there, but I was not the producer! This was let to slide with just a simple warning not to do it again. But the case of the futon was different--I went to the clean center to make sure it was O.K., but it is against Japanese law for a contractor to dispose of (construction garbage) without the appropriate license! So, just have to call the garbage guy to pick the stuff up! Otherwise, I could have simply put the blankets, mats, etc into the back of a truck, driven to the clean center--had the truck weighed upon entering the facility--dump the stuff, and then pay 100 yen/10kg of burnable waste like any other citizen wanting to get rid of larger volumes of junk.

A real learning curve when dealing with rules and local law. Japan is a country with laws that are either black or white. There is no room for gray, and the authorities who interpret the laws, check very closely before giving their answer--of course with the appropriate smile and thank you!

As for the pump trucks "Laurentius" in Tochigi we call them "honey wagons" but that might have started a long time ago--because when you pump crap from sewage storage tanks, it might have attracted flies like honey! The new ones are so clean you could serve lunch on anyplace on the truck--except for the odor of the pumped vapor! There is a distinct fragrance in the neighborhood when the "honey wagon" shows up to pump the JOKASO!

Glad to hear everyone is interested in Japanese law---I guess I have gotten enough off track, but this is just a glimpse of living in a foreign country--the lighter side!

Different note: Spent yesterday teaching all kinds of little kids how to slop drywall mud onto the walls of model homes that they were decorating. This was an all day event to attract children and their parents to new home construction, materials used, and to look at design in a different light. Really a fun day.

I will be setting up my "heavy" mobile oven at the opening of a new architecture office in November, preparing pizza and hopefully letting people see how efficient a WFO made from castable is in retaining heat and preparing a variety of dishes. Pizza will be the main menu and will be given free to the people who attend the event! I look forward to this and hope the outside of my oven will be finished by then...Hard to do when you work 7 days a week doing things you love to do! The architecture company will bring a crane to my house and load my oven onto a truck to haul to their new office. I will see how mobile it really is! If it falls apart during the move, just a good reason to redesign and build again!
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  #66  
Old 08-26-2013, 06:23 AM
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Default Re: WHich Oven ?

Another take!
If a person has reasonable motor skills; motivation to take a project from start to finish; able to read simple instructions; and have a basic understanding of construction; then almost anyone in this category can make a really functional brick or castable oven on one try! Most people if they had the space to do so or the resources required to do another oven would build a second oven and it would be an improvement of the first. Maybe not in quality but one that is tuned to the individuals needs after they have experienced using the first prototype.

Even though local material might be free, labor to most people is an accountable item. Any project can be tilted either way--material intensive or labor intensive or both. Because of your region--your materials may be inexpensive but the labor required is extensive.


What I have seen over the last 9 months at Forno Bravo is a group of people who are more than willing to support anyone if they are willing to accept advice.

Like Forrest Gump said, "and that is all I want to say about that!"
Bob Dylan said "I'll let you be in my dream , if you will let me be in yours!"

Last edited by mikku; 08-28-2013 at 05:35 AM. Reason: peace on earth
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  #67  
Old 08-26-2013, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: WHich Oven ?

Just because you have been doing something for 25 years doesn't mean you haven't been doing it wrong....
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  #68  
Old 08-26-2013, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: WHich Oven ?

Tscarborough how true, how true!
When I first got here my job title was technical advisor to an import house builder, actually one of the first making North American 2x4 Housing in Japan. Someone had shown their roofers how to install asphalt shingles and instructed them to use a white line that was printed on each shingle as the lap line indicator when nailing the shingles. This line though is a mark for where the nails should be placed. The lap becomes about an inch wider than recommended and makes a roof with multiple places that allow water to enter the roof. At the time, the roofer had installed scores of roofs all improperly.
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  #69  
Old 08-26-2013, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: WHich Oven ?

"Bob Dylan said "I'll let you be in my dream , if you will let me be in yours!""

Make your dreams come true; except that one where you're naked in church.
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  #70  
Old 08-26-2013, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: WHich Oven ?

I am sure glad that I am not the only one who listens to Bob Dylan tunes both old and new! Maybe we should let Nick go on his merry way and continue this thread with Bob Dylan lyrics.

My problem is--old age makes me remember only parts of the lyrics-- Like: God said to Abraham-kill me a son, Abe said to God, you got to be putting me on; God said no; Abe said what! God said you can do what you want but the next time you see me coming you better Run! Abe said "where do you want this killing done?" God said on "Highway 61".

BTW Bob Zimmerman grew up in Hibbing which is about 25 miles from my home! and "Highway 61 is just a local --non main highway running in northern Minnesota".

The locals never appreciated his brilliance and still do not, it takes going out into the world and doing your thing for a lifetime before it is really appreciated!

some of his lyrics are probably better understood if you lived in the time, I did but still have no idea of what he was talking about.
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