#21  
Old 02-16-2008, 11:01 AM
McLane's Avatar
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Default Re: Hello from Pennsylvania

Yes, you need a certified ventilation system as well as a fire suppression system. The type of system has an official name, I think it's called a "halo" system, but I'm not sure.
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  #22  
Old 02-16-2008, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Hello from Pennsylvania

This is all very exciting. It will be great to watch your progress and help in any way we can.

There are two basic issues you will have to address with local authorities -- safety/fire and sanitation. FB is in the final stages of UL approval for our ovens, and I have learned a lot about these topics -- including how time consuming it can be. :-)

I agree with the idea of talking to your local authorities, including building, fire and sanitation/health early. You can tackle the issues, but you need to start early.

James
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  #23  
Old 02-16-2008, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: Hello from Pennsylvania

It's probably a Halon system. We have them at the refinery when I work. It's a nice system. It is capable of putting out types A,B, and C fires (virturally all varieties), leaves no residue, and will not destroy electical equipment like a water or chemical powder system.
Just some more random thoughts. A ventilation system is basically an air exchange. My lab has a requirement to exchange all of the air in the lab 6 times an hour. This is a bit extreme for most applications. However, the more air exchanges you have, the harder it is to maintain temperatures. FB Forum creed -- You can never have enough insulation.
During your planing, check to the direction of flow of your ventilation. Having your blower push cold air directly into your ovens is counter productive and makes them fuel hogs. We have found that we can maintain the needed exchanges without blowing air directly onto heating sources. Some of ours run @ 1100 Degrees C ( just a little datum for the metric guys). When the air blows on them we can only get up to about 1025 degrees C. So we adjust our vents to blow parallel across the front of the unit and not directly at it.
Maybe you can put your oven on the outside of the building with just the opening exposed to the kitchen area.

You can't always think of everything, but you're doing a great job. I can't think of anything you appear to a missed.

Keep up the good work

Bruce
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  #24  
Old 02-16-2008, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: Hello from Pennsylvania

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencookie View Post
Maybe you can put your oven on the outside of the building with just the opening exposed to the kitchen area.
That idea came up very early in the discussion, but with the winter temps that we have around here (last Sunday the high was 5 degrees F), the thought is that it would take far too long to heat the unit up to a temp that would bake bread.
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  #25  
Old 02-16-2008, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: Hello from Pennsylvania

Dave,

Just a point or two to stress. You WILL have to educate fire officials about what a WFO actually is, the fact that it does not radiate heat, the fact that the chimney does not smoke, the fact that very few, if any, sparks are created outside (providing proper wood is burned), the fact that the entire operation is meant to keep heat in, not bleed it into the building, the fact that it is neither a woodstove nor a fireplace. My fire chief was very sceptical at first, but then he came to the conclusions, A. I'm an eccentric loony, B. My oven is a giant, eccentric, BBQ. Moral: he's weird but harmless.

It might be a lot easier for you, as suggested, to build the oven in a lean to attached to an exterior wall, with only the oven mouth projecting into the kitchen area. This might solve a lot of regulatory problems, but I'm not all that certain in your location.

From a strictly commercial point of view, the margin on bread is low, the margin on pizza is high.

Go figure.

Jim
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  #26  
Old 02-16-2008, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: Hello from Pennsylvania

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckJim View Post
Dave,
A. I'm an eccentric loony, B. My oven is a giant, eccentric, BBQ. Moral: he's weird but harmless.
Jim
Ha,Ha, Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Same experience I have had. But they probably added

C. Persistent Pain in the Rear (with crazy technical questions)
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  #27  
Old 02-16-2008, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: Hello from Pennsylvania

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckJim View Post

From a strictly commercial point of view, the margin on bread is low, the margin on pizza is high.

Go figure.

Jim
I'm going to start a VPN pizzeria when I grow up.
James
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  #28  
Old 02-16-2008, 12:53 PM
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Default Re: Hello from Pennsylvania

Quote:
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I'm going to start a VPN pizzeria when I grow up.
James
Don't grow up James. It sucks the fun out of everything !
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  #29  
Old 02-16-2008, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Hello from Pennsylvania

Jim,
Is that really true about the low margin on bread? Maybe in Canada? The stores and bakeries around here charge $3.50 a loaf for artisan baked bread. Same price at the farmer's markets. I rarely buy it because its so expensive, and I can make my own at home (once again, though rarely do).
George
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  #30  
Old 02-17-2008, 06:35 AM
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Default Re: Hello from Pennsylvania

George,

The margin question has to do with time, not cost of ingredients, unless you're adding things like olives or walnuts. True artisan bread baked in a wood fired oven takes an enormous amount of time: wood gatering and cutting, firing the oven, making and forming the dough, retarding, baking. Unfortunately, the word "artisan" has been co-opted to mean simply the shapes, not the method. You have to sell a lot of bread to make ends meet, and I charge $7 for a kilo sourdough boule. Pizza is another matter. What does Pizza Pizza (yeech) sell a large pizza smothered with so so ingredients for? Add up the time and ingredients costs involved. You probably find that a $12 pizza like that costs about $1.50 to make. People are used to $2 loaves of Wonder Bread AND $12 junk pizzas, but they're not used to real bread.

Jim
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