#11  
Old 10-05-2011, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: mello judith flour

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Originally Posted by texassourdough View Post
OK, gotcha! (I think!) The first pics were the preferment and the second pics were the dough. Right?

72 hours is pushing the dough pretty hard on starch...It will be breaking down pretty quick thereafter and many consider dough distinctly on its way downhill after 72. It is individual taste, but...

Interesting!
Jay
You are correct, first pics were preferment and second set were the dough. Almost the entire cycle of fermentation is done refrigerated i.e. long cold fermentation and then the dough is allowed to go to room temp and turned out on fresh flour for a stretch and fold. At that point I use it or freeze it. The fresh flour incorporated during this process at 72 hours seems to strengthen it and give it another round of life and I am getting more flavors. I am still learning here though so any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Last edited by gt40; 10-05-2011 at 08:47 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-05-2011, 06:26 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Location: San Antonio
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Default Re: mello judith flour

Ahhhhh!

Adding fresh flour will partially rejuvenate the protein and starch and thus the dough... The challenge for extended retard doughs is that the degradation of both starch and protein is driven by enzymes which are not affected by temp as much as the yeast. The degradation increases flavor but eventually has what most consider a negative impact on crust and crumb and texture. S&Fs can help as can a bit of flour but you are almost guaranteed in my experience to be overproofed (short of sugar and relatively short of CO2) The result will tend to be a pale (whitish, not the golden caramelized look of "properly" proofed dough) and with a somewhat strange toughish, chewy quality that I tend to associate with overproofed "runny" dough (from being overly broken down). (The latter is somewhat subtle and may not communicate right! it is IMO a bit weird!)(But it depends on how far OVER it is!

Thanks!
Jay
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  #13  
Old 10-05-2011, 09:03 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Default Re: mello judith flour

Quote:
Originally Posted by texassourdough View Post
Ahhhhh!

Adding fresh flour will partially rejuvenate the protein and starch and thus the dough... The challenge for extended retard doughs is that the degradation of both starch and protein is driven by enzymes which are not affected by temp as much as the yeast. The degradation increases flavor but eventually has what most consider a negative impact on crust and crumb and texture. S&Fs can help as can a bit of flour but you are almost guaranteed in my experience to be overproofed (short of sugar and relatively short of CO2) The result will tend to be a pale (whitish, not the golden caramelized look of "properly" proofed dough) and with a somewhat strange toughish, chewy quality that I tend to associate with overproofed "runny" dough (from being overly broken down). (The latter is somewhat subtle and may not communicate right! it is IMO a bit weird!)(But it depends on how far OVER it is!

Thanks!
Jay
Interesting. Back in April, I started adding some malted barley syrup to the predough and a bit of honey to the actual dough after seeing this post:

Experiment - Effect of retarding 0 days, 1, 2 and 3. [Picture included] | The Fresh Loaf

This was before the wfo oven was built and in a 500 degree home oven, it made a difference.



Recent baking my recipe in the WFO causes massive oven spring where it is downright spherical(I need to take a pic of this) with good elongated holes and crust is crackly so I am confused. I guess I will try shortening the retardation a bit.
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  #14  
Old 10-06-2011, 05:07 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: mello judith flour

First comment is that the color on those loaves is nice. Still has sugar which is evident in the caremalized golden color.

WRT retarding I would suggest doing a comparison by doing two batches two days apart so you have one loaves with three days retard and others with one day. Bake them together at the same time and see the difference... You may decide you distinctly prefer one or the other - or perhaps think something between would be preferable.

If the loaves are coming out "round" the skin of your loaf is not allowing expansion. It either got too dry during proofing (in my experience will usually show by not being golden - on the grayish/brown side), or the oven is too dry (likely if you are only doing a couple of loaves and are note heavily humidifying the oven - similar color problem), or you aren't slashing the loaves - or not adequately) to create weak points for the loaves to expand. Unslashed loaves are traditionally dimpled with fingers sort of like focaccia to create room for expansion. Traditional Pane Pugliesi is a good example. Show us some pics!
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  #15  
Old 11-01-2011, 08:07 AM
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Default Re: mello judith flour

I tried shortening the retard time and everyone likes the longer one. I also found amazing improvment in my dough by making the predough per recipe with Mello Judith and then the final dough with half Mello Judith and half Caputo OO. It increased the extensibility and I am getting perfect combo of chewy and crackly crust.
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  #16  
Old 11-01-2011, 08:42 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: mello judith flour

Sounds like a good experiment!

The goal is to find what you like! And there are so many subtleties of flour, water, yeast/bacteria, temperature, humidity, etc. and taste that each of us will tend to come to different conclusions! And that is part of the fun of sourdough!

Bake On!
Jay
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