Playing with sourdough

[CanuckJim]

RLF,

NOW you're getting picky, which is a good thing. Take a long hard look at the progressive pictures you've posted. Each shows a marked improvement over the last. Just keep it up. The joke goes that Yitzak Perlman (sp?) came up the steps from the New York subway one day. Obviously lost, he was looking around when he spotted Dizzy Gillespie leaning against a lamp post. "Excuse, me, young man," says Perlman, "can you tell me how to get to Carnegie Hall?" Gillespie thinks a moment, rubbing his chin, then says, "That's easy, man: practice, practice, practice."

It is possible to add IDY to sourdough recipes. It's called spiking and will bring the loaves to the oven sooner, but I don't think it will change your results that much. I'd suggest you keep working with the starter until it matures a bit more.

Like ovens, levains have personalities. Let yours hit its stride before making large variable changes.

Jim

[rlf5]

Oh another reason to get my oven done ASAP...I cracked the glass in my kitchen oven when I spilled some water on it during my steam injection. The wife says after its fixed, I can't cook bread in it anymore. Guess it won't get fixed anytime soon!

[rlf5]

Ok I have a question about my starter. Since I've had it, it has not been able to EVER double in size. I believe Jim said wild yeast usually doesn't double, but mine struggles to even get to 1.5, and thats only after sitting out at room temperature (~73F) for over 24 hrs. I used to keep it in the fridge and feed it once a week, but for the past week I've kept it out and fed it once ever 12 to 24 hrs depending on how active it seemed to be (streaks of bubbles/foam on top). The smell is there, the bread tastes good when i cook with it (although its always quite dense, lacking a nice hole structure in the crumb), but it just won't expand like I'd like. Is my particular strain of yeast still just too young? Will maturation only increase the depth of flavor, or will the yeast get stronger as well? Also, does my flour have anything to do with it? I've been using KA unbleached bread flour, and feeding in at least a 1:2 ratio.

[asudavew]

cheat....

feed it some sugar

then watch out!

[DrakeRemoray]

I don't think my CULTURE acutally doubles, other than doubling by ingredients...The BREAD doubles, but I don't think the culture does...

[rlf5]

Unfortunately neither do it for me.

[CanuckJim]

RLF,

Nope, the culture will not double, as Drake says. It's the dough you want to almost double. Bit of a confusion here, because you want to double the weight of the culture, say 1 lb starter to a half pound flour and a half pound water. Try this: double your starter and let it sit out for 14 to 16 hours, then use it. Twenty four hours is too long and might invite some unwanted guests to the party. The flour you are using is fine. Don't change it.

Cultures improve over time, no doubt, both in flavor and activity. I suspect, and it's only a suspicion, that there is something going on in your kneading or handling techniques that's affecting the crumb. Can't look over your shoulder during production, though, so it remains a suspicion. It seems you're doing everything in the right direction, but there's a glitch somewhere. Problem is to find it.

Jim

[rlf5]

Thanks guys. I'm sure my handling has quite a bit to do with it. I have to knead by hand, so I'm not quite sure if I'm kneading enough. Although, I've never had my barm or dough come close to doubling, so I'm not quite sure if thats me or the yeast there. Hopefully I'll be getting a mixer soon, so at least I'll be able to narrow things down more after that. In the meantime I'll just keep trying and learning from my mistakes and successes. Thanks again!

[CanuckJim]

RLF,

Do you use the windowpane test to determine if your kneading is complete? If not, you should try it for one batch. For another, stretch and fold the dough twice, evenly timed, during the bulk rise. It may be that the gluten matrix is not fully developed. I'm wondering if a video clip of these two techniques might be in order. What says the Forum?

Jim

[rlf5]

Jim

The videos would be great! I've been using Hammelman's folding technique lately as well as his calculations for water temperature. Both have helped but I think I still need to adjust my friction factor. I've been doing the window pane test since the beginning but I think my qualification for what passes has gone up each time as well. When I started I believe I was only slightly developing my gluten, and now I think I'm only getting to a medium development although I'm really not sure. I learned this after seeing the pictures at Wild Yeast
In the beginning my first windowpanes looked like the first picture, and how they more resemble the second. I don't think I've ever achieved the third picture. I imagine its also because I get to my target temperature during kneading before my gluten is properly developed.