Cleaning bannetons? Get Cooking Discuss Cleaning bannetons? in the Brick Oven Cooking forums; Annie, that bread looks great ..do you bake for a living? Here's the photo of the first loaf out of ...

[Wiley]

Annie, that bread looks great ..do you bake for a living?

Here's the photo of the first loaf out of the new banneton as well as a shot of the crumb. The bread is 1/4 fresh ground Montana Red Spring Wheat and 3/4 Costco's Bread Flour, it turned out a bit denser than I expected. The loaf itself is paler too, but the internal temp measured 205F and it sounded hollow so I figure it is done.

Bests,
Wiley

[AnnieMacD]

Thanks, Wiley. Well, yes and no! I sell my bread but haven't given up the day job - yet.

Your bread looks great. Just two observations. If you had scored the bread yourself, it would have had a 'controlled' gash rather than burst open such as yours did. Secondly, just up the percentage of liquid (the hydration) in your bread and you'll get a more open crumb. I bet it tasted amazing. Was the Red Spring flour 100% whole wheat? You should be able to go up to 50% WW and still get a pretty open crumb. A good idea is to start with 100% white flour and get used to what that looks like, then increase the proportion of WW by 10% at a time and compare the results. I often do 50% but actually prefer 15 - 20%. Have you tried spelt flour? I use it more and more in place of whole-wheat.

Let us know how it goes.
Annie

[james]

Annie and Wiley,

Everything is look great. Wow, what wonderful looking bread. Wiley, are you baking by weight? It's an easy way of controller your water %.

I have a bag of freshly milled Spelt from the Bale Mill, which I will be using for the first time in a day or two.

What should I expect from spelt?
James

[brokencookie]

Spelt will have a taste and texture like 100% whole wheat. I use it for my daughter who is allergic to wheat. As far as hydration. It tends to like a little less hydration that traditional wheat. It also has far less gluten. I have been using it for the No-Knead recipe with some good success. Since the texture is fairly coarse I have been experimenting with ways to improve the texture. The best I have come up with is using mashed yams or sweet potatoes. I am at work and without my recipe in front of my but the basics are

600 grams spelt
180 grams mashed yams ( I buy them canned and use a splooch of OJ and a blender to make them smooth)
320 grams of water
6 grams yeast
9 grams salt


I think that's pretty close. If you have used the No-Knead method then just adjust the water content by feel at the end.

Then just follow the No-Knead method. It tend to not rise as much as a wheat flour. You won't even notice the yams, they disappear into the bread and just act as a texture improver.

[Wiley]

Annie, I'm using the no knead bread method and so slashing the tops after they are dropped into the screaming hot pot is perhaps doable but something not mentioned in the instructions. As for upping the water content I'll try that as well. Thanks for the advice.

The Montana Red Spring Wheat I bought as berries and ground fairly coarsely before mixing. The rest of the flour was white bread flour. I like the addition of the ruffage as well as what it does to the color of the loaf. Although you would not know that looking at the color in the photo. The photo of the cut loaf was taken upstairs without any additional light, the other one on the ground floor in my kitchen, where the lighting was on.

James I have been mixing the no knead by volume and fairly roughly at that. Just like in the NY Times video (save the cooking times are much different using my oven). Heretofore using straight white flour I have been pleased with the results. Now replacing some of the white with an equal amount of fresh ground Red Spring....etc. and one can see the results; the crumb has much smaller holes and is denser, but tasting fine. I'll try Annie' advice and up the water content and start treating the recipe with a tighter control of measures. (Although I admit I enjoyed the free spirit of the way I was making the all white bread)
Thanks,
Wiley

[egalecki]

Originally Posted by Wiley

(Although I admit I enjoyed the free spirit of the way I was making the all white bread)
Thanks,
Wiley

I kinda miss throwing it together sometimes too, but I don't miss the bricks I used to turn out more often than I would care to admit... (especially with whole wheat added- it's easy to do well with white)

Weighing the ingredients produces a much more predictable loaf for me. As long as it takes to get my bread together- the soakers, etc, I really hate it when they don't turn out like they're supposed to. And I don't like my husband having to use what I consider inferior bread for his sandwiches! The only thing not nailed down quite yet is the oven temperature, and that's going to be coming along- it's finally nice outside for a few days!

I am not sure you need to use the pot for your bread if you're using your wfo. You should be able to steam the crap out of the oven and turn your loaf out on the peel and put it in naked. You should get very similar results.

Annie's right, I have a brotform, not a bannetton. I keep getting them conflated. I have read where some people clean them out and then dry them carefully in the oven, but I haven't felt the need to do that.

I tried using flour sack towels as couches, spraying them with pam and using flour like Reinhart suggests. It didn't work terribly well all the time. I think some of it was because actual linen has a much flatter weave- if you look at it, the yarns used tend to look sort of flat. The cotton is spun a lot tighter and I think that makes the two cloths behave differently, particularly in the way they release. There's also a big difference in the thread count. Next time I'm going to order some real linen from SF Baking and see.

[egalecki]

Annie, I tried using the plastic bags last time I baked- it was great! No more drying out on top! It was a little harder to see how far along I was since I didn't have clear bags, but I'm looking for some.

I used to use these cool things saran wrap put out- they were like little shower caps. I'd pop one of those on the edge of a pan or a bowl and they kept things nice and moist. The small ones did a great job on the tops of the sourdough containers- they'd vent themselves before it popped!

I can't find them anymore, more's the pity.

[Wiley]

Originally Posted by egalecki

I am not sure you need to use the pot for your bread if you're using your wfo. You should be able to steam the crap out of the oven and turn your loaf out on the peel and put it in naked. You should get very similar results.

I tried using flour sack towels as couches, spraying them with pam and using flour like Reinhart suggests. It didn't work terribly well all the time. I think some of it was because actual linen has a much flatter weave- if you look at it, the yarns used tend to look sort of flat. The cotton is spun a lot tighter and I think that makes the two cloths behave differently, particularly in the way they release. There's also a big difference in the thread count. Next time I'm going to order some real linen from SF Baking and see.

Elizabeth, Presently I've been baking in an indoors oven. Several reasons, but the biggest is the convenience at the moment. I have assembled the new metal "pavilion" and am making plans for pouring the base, cutting the transition/pass-thru for the chimney and deciding whether I want to run wires thru the tubes/columns or go with solar powered light system. The unit did not come with detailed footprint dimensions and so I am working backward to get the slab dimensions. So while the pavilion is in place the chimney is off my WFO and it is not available.

Regarding using cloth couches, I have been using floured cotton for some time without problem save for this one instance which I blame insufficient flour on the cloth for the sticking problem. The usual problem ..."operator error". I agree and think linen would be better as being made of flax the fibers are longer and less fluffy, but one learns to work with what one has. My banneton came with a fitted cloth cover with an elastic around the edge to hold it on...like a cloth shower cap.

Bests,
Wiley

[AnnieMacD]

Just a couple of things:

Elizabeth, the caps are good for the top of the baskets, but don't 100% work as the weave of both the banneton and the linen also allow for drying out. Esp if you are making sourdough and have a long proof. Try out the big clear bags and you won't be disappointed. I know you can get them from King Arthur if you can't get them locally.

And, to ALL, if you have a WFO, please, please bake on the oven floor. Anything else is a travesty. (You can see I don't have a stong opinion on this)! I have a few clients who want panned loaves (they fit in the toaster) and I cringe having to do it. There's nothing quite like bread and pizza from the hearth of the WFO, IMHO.

Annie

PS Don't know anything about the no-knead bread you are talking about but assume it's baked in some vessel - am I right? I make a no-knead bread and treat it like all other dough. A.

[Wiley]

Annie, Here is a link that you may (or perhaps may not) find interesting:


YouTube - Making No-Knead Bread

Bests,
Wiley