#11  
Old 02-21-2011, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: spent grain bread

Sigh, My first attempt had its ups and downs.

On the upside, I’m comfortable with the techniques presented and have a much better idea of what this bread is and how I would use it. I didn’t get the oven spring that I expected and I think I would have had better results using loaf pans rather than either a floured banneton or linen in a bowl to proof. The high fiber content of the bread and that I had degassing due to stickage, held the crumb structure down below where I had imagined the bread would end up. I also expected that I would have seen more browning on top and that flavor would be sweeter. I used Agave syrup not honey have made some difference in browning and sweetness. I also included vegetable oil for moisture. I’ll give it another go when I get some loaf pans.

Chris

PS John, you are correct regarding Wort. Once the liquid is drained from the grain it's Green Wort.
Attached Thumbnails
spent grain bread-sgbread.jpg  

Last edited by SCChris; 02-21-2011 at 09:50 AM.
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  #12  
Old 02-21-2011, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: spent grain bread

They look overproofed based on crust color and shape - though as you suggest rough handling and sticking can contribute to the shape. Crust color could be only moderate baking - I like it darker but...

Keep at it! Spent grain bread is a real keeper!
Jay
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  #13  
Old 02-21-2011, 01:00 PM
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Default Re: spent grain bread

Chris,

Thanks for posting the pic. It won't be long before you get the process nailed.

I have committed to resuming brewing once the oven is finished, and spent grain bread will be high on the priority list.
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  #14  
Old 02-21-2011, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: spent grain bread

A couple of things. If anyone is interested in learning more about the brewing process a good site can be found at:

How to Brew - By John Palmer - Contents

Section 3 of the book is especially pertinent to the spent grain.

The other thing I have read is some people are using some of the sweet wort in place of water and sweeteners. Seems like a really good idea to add some interesting flavors to the bread.

Cheers,

Dwight
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  #15  
Old 02-21-2011, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: spent grain bread

Dwight,

Cool site. Great primer for the new guy looking to get into the hobby.

I'd like to learn how to use my spent yeast to make Vegemite. I tried it for the first time a few months ago and just polished off my first little $9 jar.
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  #16  
Old 02-21-2011, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: spent grain bread

Jay, I like mine darker as well. With the Pain Ancient, the color is just part of the higher heat baking, IMO. That the SG loafs enter a 425F oven and are baked at 350F, is making getting color more of a problem. I wonder if keeping the 425 for 5 minutes would help. I need to get a handle using the banneton more effectively. I really beat up the loafs extracting them. Jay, How do you apply the flour to the banneton? I just floured the heck out of them, should I have misted spray oil and then dusted?

John, let me know how your brewing goes.

Chris
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  #17  
Old 02-21-2011, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: spent grain bread

What bothers me about your loaves, Chris, more than the darkness is the color. It could be simply lighting or a lighter baking but it looks more like overproofed which gives a sort of blah color that I don't like. Reason is that overproofing exhausts the sugars so the loaf doesn't brown properly. Now, note: I am not saying they are overproofed, just that they look like it! You had multiple problems so we can't guarantee I am right! Yes, going a little longer at a higher temp can help push the loaf a bit darker.

NOTE: in my long discussion with Eric on his sourdough failure, the reason I want your base loaf to be 100% reliable is so that when you change the oven temp profile you knwo IT was the source of the change. By having your base bread reliable you can say, gee, I know I am a bit overproofed so when the color and loaf volume are a bit off you expected it. It reinforces your Understanding!

I haven't had any problems with bannetons with my spent grain. Unfortunately my sources promise spent grain and seldom come through so I don't have a lot of experience. In my experience the spent grain loaf is pretty well behaved so I would not flour the bannetons heavily. When I do have doughs that give me concern I try to make sure the gaps between the alder canes are full of flour. But that is all I do. It is usually enough but every once in a while it is not! And, to deal with that is interesting. Splat and I chat offline from time to time and we both tend to find that sticky doughs that don't release from the banneton usually still have good oven spring and loaf shape. (My most recent Tartine loaves did not!) So it is NOT mandatory that a sticky loaf equals a flawed loaf. If you have good dough development the seemingly rough treatment of being rudely pulled from the banneton does not equal disaster.

WRT how I apply flour, I simply do it by hand and then sort of swirl it around to try to get it in the cracks. When I use plastic bannetons I tend to spray it with Pam and then apply flour/rice flour. Rice flour is a magical releasing agent for dough (bread or pizza) and deserves some attention. I tend to hate the stuff for I think it gives ugly crusts but I need to put more effort into brushing it off!

Spent grain is one of my very favorite loaves so keep at it!
Jay
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2011, 07:37 AM
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Default Re: spent grain bread

Jay, I think you’re spot on with the over proofing, especially on the loafs that were proofed in the baskets. I read your info last night before I went to bed, awoke and replayed the baking session. These later loafs went into the oven an hour after the first loafs and show it. The stickage makes sense because the amount of gas in the dough created a situation where any stickage had more potential to really rip up the dough. I’ll make a 2X batch next time around, my reasoning being that I can bake 2 1KG loafs at one time in my kitchen oven. I don’t want to make too much change and not be able to learn from the changes, but I think I’ll lose the vegetable oil. The addition of the oil really made the dough feel foreign when kneading.



Chris

PS I just went through EricU's sourdough thread and want to thank Jay Splat and Eric for the detailed info.

Last edited by SCChris; 02-22-2011 at 08:52 AM.
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2011, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: spent grain bread

My spent grain loaves from PRs book on Whole Grain breads have come out much darker than yours, Chris. And really moist. Would be hard to overbake them severely I think. The lower baking temp is to accomodate the more delicate ingredients relative to straight dough boules. It is IMO generally preferable to bake a little early rather than a bit late. Note: a hard brick is too early! (not for you Chris but for those who go overboard!) The dough needs to have some soft airy quality if it is to be other than a brick!

Good Luck!
Jay
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  #20  
Old 02-22-2011, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: spent grain bread

I'll get it righter.. Perfect, maybe not, but much righter!! I think there are some areas in the process that I can get a better handle on. One of these areas is proofing, dough temps room temps and times. Maybe it's time for a bit of journaling.. If it gives me a point of reference and a crutch what the heck.. To quote a certain ex govenor "I'll be back!!"

:-)
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