#11  
Old 09-12-2012, 12:14 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Location: San Antonio
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Default Re: Sourdough Boules with Rye

I had seen that Chad was working on a spelt loaf. I am not as infatuated as some with alternative grains for (in my limited experience) the crumb tends to be dense and gummy. That said I LOVE small doses of grains and other flours as a flavor/aroma enhancer. For example I love teff flour!

SFBI had a newsletter on ancient grains that is good reading http://www.sfbi.com/images/pdfs/SFBI_Fall09News1229.pdf

I have a burr coffee mill I have threatened to use for grain. My big mill makes LOTS OF NOISE! and is a pain to get out and put away.

When I started my career as a chemical engineer I began by being given the problem of shredding pellets of nylon polymers into a powder to use as a glue in industrial applications (like gluing together the laminations of helicoptor blades). The day I arrived my predecessor had glued a large, commercial mill into a solid block. They tried to get me to be responsible for getting it unglued and I declined suggesting that he who created the mess should solve it! In this case the heat of pulverisation melted the polymer! Things definitely get HOT when milled. I solved my heat problem by using liquid nitrogen to freeze the pellets prior to feeding them into the mill. Got much better particle size control and never had an other fiasco. I too have noticed the warmth of the flour. I have not tried freezing grain but it should be a worthwhile in a dry climate. My reluctance has been that anything frozen tends to create dew which wets the flour and that isn't good either. You should get a noticeable increase in color and aroma from milling frozen grain. One of the clues is that the color of doughs that were hand mixed, modified mixed, and intensively mixed were progressively whiter. And that is quite simply oxidation - and there was only about two minutes difference in mixing time in a spiral mixer between the modified and intense - but a big difference in color!

Sound like a great thing to try in dry, sunny, southern Cal!
Jay

Last edited by texassourdough; 09-12-2012 at 03:24 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-12-2012, 12:43 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
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Default Re: Sourdough Boules with Rye

The info in the SFBI newsletter is very helpful, I the specifics of the different grain and pseudo grains is just what I've been looking for. Also, it's really interesting that just 2 minutes can make a big color difference in the product, very cool information!..

Chris
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  #13  
Old 09-12-2012, 03:32 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: Sourdough Boules with Rye

Thought you would like the grain newsletter!

The color wasn't terribly different - and we adjusted the water temp to compensate for the extra "heating" of the extended mixing so they came out at the same temp. But the crumb was distinctly and recognizably lighter and the flavor more bland. This is one of the reasons I have pretty much gone to hand mixing. I think I get more flavor. Doing an experiment with a KA or other mixer is easy. Just give one minimal mixing to pull together and the next a couple of minutes more. With the high friction factor of a KA I am confident you will see a difference.

Jay
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  #14  
Old 09-12-2012, 05:48 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: Sourdough Boules with Rye

Included is a picture of my levain about an hour after mixing and at 80F. On the left is 100% hydration, on the right is 60%. I'll add another picture at about 4 hours.

Chris
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Sourdough Boules with Rye-wp_000281.jpg  
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  #15  
Old 09-13-2012, 08:21 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: Sourdough Boules with Rye

And 4 hours later.
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Sourdough Boules with Rye-wp_000282.jpg   Sourdough Boules with Rye-wp_000283.jpg  
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  #16  
Old 09-13-2012, 10:13 AM
WJW WJW is offline
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Location: Camarillo, CA
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Default Re: Sourdough Boules with Rye

Let's make it happen then.

Chris, I'm sure you are incorrect about the amount of rainfall we get in Camarillo.

I'm only about ninety miles north of you and about fifteen miles from the center of Thousand Oaks. Like San Clemente, Camarillo is near the coast. Anyway, I looked on a NOAA whether site and according to that San Clemente receives an average rainfall of 13.56 inches a year. Camarillo receives 13.61 inches. virtually identical rainfall amounts. Were you thinking of Cambria? That's much further north and gets a bunch more rain.

Anyway, it sounds like fun and unless we plan it in January or February, I highly doubt weather will be an issue. Any time is good for me.

Bill
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  #17  
Old 09-13-2012, 10:45 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Default Re: Sourdough Boules with Rye

Re rainfall.. Hmmm I stand corrected. I based my erroneous rainfall on T.O. = 21.05 and how we seem to fair with respect to LA.. I guess rather than the grass is always greener, that "x" city has more rain does not follow..

:-)

Ok it looks like I need to find a time to travel to my sister's.



Chris

Last edited by SCChris; 09-13-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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  #18  
Old 09-13-2012, 11:12 AM
WJW WJW is offline
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Default Re: Sourdough Boules with Rye

Interesting about the rainfall for Thousand Oaks. I would not have guessed they received that much. I guess the few hundred extra feet of elevation and the fact that it is tucked in between those two coastall ranges of foothills really increases the rainfall they get compared to the the surrounding areas. Virtually all of coastal Ventura county is right around 13-14 inches. Some of the mountain areas get a LOT more. I guess T.O. is somewhere in between.

Bill
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  #19  
Old 09-17-2012, 08:38 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: Sourdough Boules with Rye

First let me apologize for the quality of the cell phone photos, they're only slightly better than none. The first photo is of the fresh Rye flour. I'm getting use to the mill and because of this you'll see some larger flour particles. I don't mind these, they add a bit of rustic to the bread, but they were unintentional. The flour Mill will allow me to really go fine on the flour, but since it's easier to clear the flour by opening the stones a bit and I opened these a bit early, I ended up with some larger pieces of rye.

The following shots show the process of mixing and kneading and Stretch and folding the dough up to the 2 hour point. At 2 hours I divided the dough into 2 batches and put them to bed in the fridge. Normally I'd have given the sourdough critters another hour to multiply and at that point either shape the dough into Boules or send it to the fridge for later use. Note the photo naming, T-0 being the rough mix before autolyse, T30 the dough after autolyse, the salt being added and being aggressively kneaded, to integrate the 1% salt and 2% water slurry. The T60 is post the next S/F round and similarly T90. T120 is after a 30 minute rest and T122 is after the dough has had S/F session.

In photo 293 you'll notice the crumb has a nice shine and is open, I prefer the crumb a bit more open. Also note the Boule has the tearing associated with under proofing. The Boule in this picture could have used 30-60 more minutes of proofing, the Boule with the crumb exposed is from a second bake and is closer to ideal proofing. In Photo 294 these Boules are from the same bake, notice a little tear on the end of the uncut Boule, just about right but a few more minutes would have opened the crumb and might have been better.

These batches had a few challenges relating to time. Ideally I'd be able to dial up the levain with 2 feeding and really allow it to get rolling before mixing it into the dough, this time because of hot weather I had to choose between less than ideal levain from the fridge or way past prime levain after work. I chose the refrigerated levain. Second, again because of the hot weather and time constraints, I choose to get the dough into the fridge at 2 hours rather than deal with a hot oven. Sunday the weather broke and we were 15F cooler and the bake was more pleasant.


Chris
Attached Thumbnails
Sourdough Boules with Rye-rye-flour.jpg   Sourdough Boules with Rye-t-0.jpg   Sourdough Boules with Rye-t30.jpg   Sourdough Boules with Rye-t60.jpg   Sourdough Boules with Rye-t90.jpg  

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  #20  
Old 09-17-2012, 08:39 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: Sourdough Boules with Rye

Addl Photos from the above discussion.

Chris
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Sourdough Boules with Rye-t120.jpg   Sourdough Boules with Rye-t122.jpg   Sourdough Boules with Rye-293.jpg   Sourdough Boules with Rye-294.jpg  
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