#21  
Old 12-20-2010, 03:58 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Glendale, Arizona
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Default Re: not quite right...

Tman1,

An upturned dutch oven seems a bit awkward to handle in a hot oven but I did see the reference Laurentius mentioned in a book recently.

The method I use to add steam in our kitchen oven is to put one cup of hot water in an oven-safe metal pan on a rack below the bread. It steams just enough to develop a nice crust.

For adding steam to the wood fired oven I simply squirt about 20 misty sprays into the center of the oven from a Home Depot hand sprayer then place the bread on the hearth without delay. Five minutes later I spray a few more times. You only need steam for the first part of the bake.

Best of luck,
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  #22  
Old 12-21-2010, 11:38 AM
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Default Re: not quite right...

I've been pouring water into the broiler pan when I cook in the house oven. I've read that misting technique before... we need it to stop snowing here so I can officially try bread in the oven.
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  #23  
Old 12-24-2010, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: not quite right...

Could the flour make that much difference in cook time? I tried the last loaf of the bleached flour dough last night, and it was in the oven at 450* for 45 minutes, and still did not reach 205 internal temp. At this length of cooking time, the crust starts to have a burned taste.
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  #24  
Old 12-24-2010, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: not quite right...

Oh, and the temp in the oven is accurate. I bought a thermometer to check because that seemed the most likely.
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  #25  
Old 12-24-2010, 08:36 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: not quite right...

Hi TM!

Have you verified the accuracy of your thermometer. Since you are at low elevation boiling water makes a good reference. Should be 211 or 212 (but it needs to be boiling - not just simmering!)

I am assuming you are not making a supersize loaf. A loaf in the 1 1/4 to 2 pound range should be well above 205 in a 450 oven in 45 minutes. High hydration could be a contributor but...even then it should be hotter.

Tell us more about your baking. I take it you aren't using a cloche or dome.

Merry Christmas
Jay
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  #26  
Old 12-24-2010, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: not quite right...

Hello Tman1,

I baked yesterday and experienced the same thing. Internal temp was 190 deg but the outside appeared done perfectly. I'm calibrating my digital probe as I write this and so far it looks like it is right on. I did find the oven dial is 15 deg cooler than indicated, not a problem that should affect things in a big way, but very easy to accommodate by placing the dial a little past the temperature recommended in a recipe.

My bread is turning out pretty good and it might be foolish to argue with success by making major changes. Looking at the issue you describe it appears the recommended time and oven temperature is not producing the recommended internal temperature of the "finished" loaf. Things that could affect this are the size of the loaf, hydration and cooking environment. I suggest adjusting the hydration of your next dough by reducing it a little and try again. Use a digital scale to weigh the water and record this recipe as a baseline for future batches. If lower hydration does not provide the internal temperature you're looking for then adjust the size of the loaf, then the amount of water added for steam, etc. Somewhere along the process you should hit upon success. Then, strive for consistency. I'm using the no-knead master recipe in the "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day" book. As a reminder, the recipe was developed for unbleached AP flour not unbleached bread flour.

Best of luck,
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  #27  
Old 12-24-2010, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: not quite right...

Put up some pictures. What to you may be burned may be underdone to me. And that is part of personal preference - there is nothing right/wrong except the taste/look you want.

I push my artisanal breads HARD in the oven. I am baking my boules to 210/211. The crust can be quite dark. But my hydration is high - 70 to 75% - so the crumb is still really moist. And my temperature checked oven does fine in about 43 minutes in the 450 range. So....need to know more about what you are getting and how you are getting it (the process) before I can add much... oh, and what you want...
Jay
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  #28  
Old 12-24-2010, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: not quite right...

I swear the first boule I did baked in 25 minutes, and tasted good. This last loaf was very dense in the middle, and the temp probe had some dough stuck to it even when I finally took it out of the oven. I don't mind the hard crust, but it did taste burned, and that I don't like. I can't peak to crumb since, well, I don't know how to describe that. I want a good tasting fresh bread. I don't think I want to spend the time to become an incredible baker, just be able to make some good tasting loaves (and impress the guests).

Again, I've been using the ABIF recipe, but haven't figured out the exact hydration, and I didn't weigh it, and I used the wrong flour! I don't know if it's even worth learning anything from it. This next batch used KA AP flour which I will probably try this evening. I might even throw caution into the wind and give ciabatta a try using Jason's recipe from TFL.
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  #29  
Old 12-24-2010, 01:33 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: not quite right...

Hi TM! Sounds badly underproofed. If you are an intermittent baker your kitchen is probably much colder now than before and you didn't get a good proof (or perhaps your yeast is tired). Most bakers find they have to change their practices a bit between summer and winter. Time is not a reliable measure.

This will sound trite but...it isn't. If the dough feels heavy and has the consistency of playdough it's not ready to bake. There is a good chance you will need to lengthen your rise time or proof at a higher temp. An oven with the light on is usually a pretty good place.

Making really great bread is not for the casual IMO but everyone should be able to make good bread with a bit of practice and familiarity.

Jason's ciabatta is pretty foolproof - but make sure it is puffy!

Hang in there!
Jay
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  #30  
Old 12-25-2010, 04:03 AM
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Default Re: not quite right...

Jay, I just got the most beautiful baguettes I have ever seen just come out of my oven, thanks to your advice. The lower hydration for workability and new yeast made all the difference. The proofing was important, learned that I shouldn't expect much oven spring with bread. It should look almost like a fully developed loaf before it goes in the oven. I also learned why you don't leave the coals in your oven while baking bread.
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