#11  
Old 12-18-2010, 05:13 AM
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Default Re: not quite right...

I'll be trying again this morning with another batch of bread... the first loaf seems to be 'better'... or I finally am using enough flour to prevent sticking...
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  #12  
Old 12-18-2010, 07:45 AM
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Default Re: not quite right...

ugg.. dissappointment.

The boule seemed to rise nicely, it scored nicely and it sang when I took it out of the oven... it even looked nice. Alas, it wasn't meant to be.
It was in the oven 15 minutes longer than expected, and still didn't make it to 205* (didn't want to pass 200), creating a burnt taste on the crust. It also is much denser than I suspect it's supposed to be. I'd be happier if I didn't know better. Worse, I did a second loaf thinking it was going so well, and I think the same thing is going to happen since the same signs are all there. The taste isn't good either in my opinion. We were smelling something coming from the fridge and my wife assumed it was the dough since it'd been in there a week, but when I took the lid off, it just didn't seem to smell that bad. I thought it was supposed to get better with a little age? I turned up the actual baking temp just slightly (460*) thinking the oven wasn't accurate. I actually had better luck with the temps at 400*. At this point, it seems like I'll never make it into the brick oven.

Maybe I'll get really lucky as one of the authors (Jeff) of 'Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes' will be at a local bookstore tossing pizza and touting his book. Maybe I can squeak some questions in?
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  #13  
Old 12-18-2010, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: not quite right...

Hello Tman1,

I made bread for the first time yesterday using the AB-5 master recipe. It turned out ok except the dough was too dry since the crumb was a little dense. Overall, the result was delicious though. Next time I'll make the dough a little wetter. I read the book from cover to cover and some parts several times as I tried to understand the techniques and instructions for a no knead dough.

I bought a wooden peel and put a longer handle on it. The loaves slid off easily with just a little corn meal under them. Re-read the part about parchment paper. Remove it 2/3 through the baking process, then return the loaf back to the oven. I don't think I want to be handling the hot loaves to peel parchment paper off them so will continue with corn meal or semolina flour on the peel. Be sure to use enough. It doesn't need to be a thick layer but a good sprinkle should do fine. You already know what happens if you use too little.

In general, if you make good pizza dough and it makes good pizza crust then you might consider that as a baseline for the AB-5 dough. Granted there are varying hydration levels for pizza dough, but it is all bread dough in reality, and should handle in a similar manner. If you have a gram scale then weigh the ingredients for your next recipe. It should provide another baseline for the results the authors intended and reduce the chance for error.

Best of luck,

Bob
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  #14  
Old 12-18-2010, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: not quite right...

Hi Tman1,

A couple of questions. Are you making sour dough, with your old starter? I've only made three loaves of bread in my life and only in the last couple of weeks, but they have been wonderful. I purchased the book,"Tartine Bread", and it states that you should feed your starter, before making your next loaf, and use the young sweet starter as your leven. After mixing your dough, give it an 8 to 12 hour, fermentation rest at room temp of slightly above, folding it once every 30minutes for the first two hours. They also recommend cooking in a stream saturated oven. Last night I added chopped Black Olive, Italian Herbs, Lemon zest and Rosemary Olive oil to my Whole Wheat Sour Dough mix. I'll let you know how it turns out. By the way if you bake with you home oven, try using a cast iron dutch oven(preheated for 20 minute at 500f or 260c, place the bread in the lid and the pot upside down and cook the first twenty minutes(230c) before removing it. This will create steam, cook for an addition 20 minutes uncovered.

Laurentius
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  #15  
Old 12-18-2010, 02:09 PM
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Default Re: not quite right...

Bob, My first loaves were good too. I seem to have lost the touch!

I did find out that my wife may be unknowingly sabotaging the bread. Bleached Flour!!! I also will try less water and measuring by weight, probably not all at the same time though. I think the first step will be to have better flour. My wife is now referring to me as a serious baker, so I guess I need to get serious flour.

I was able to talk with Jeff (author of ABIF) directly today when I went to the bookstore. Very nice, and very helpful. He encouraged me to try a few things then contact him through his website and we would work it out. I may have to have him over for pizza as he was touting a new book he's coming out with next year for pizza and such.. and I have a brick oven!! Even better, he can bring the dough!
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Old 12-18-2010, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: not quite right...

Tman1,

If your dough was too wet with AP flour then don't add less water with unbleached bread flour. You would be changing two variables then, one the flour and the other the amount of water. I think you will do ok if you weigh the ingredients and follow the recipe exactly. I'm going to make half batches until I get consistent results.

It was nice you got to meet the author. If you make the pizza dough he might be impressed, if he isn't, then he can give you some tips. I think you will have the problems ironed out by then though.

Cheers,
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  #17  
Old 12-18-2010, 09:27 PM
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Default Re: not quite right...

I was thinking we would both make pizza dough and compare. It really boils down to personal taste.

I agree, only change one variable at a time. Hmmmm, gonna be a bunch of bread.
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  #18  
Old 12-19-2010, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: not quite right...

In an earlier post you indicate the dough had been retarded a week. That is BAD! The enzymes keep chewing up the starch and you start seriously losing dough quality around day three. The consensus for peak flavor seems to be day one or two and for bread quality, day one. Refrigerator temp is a factor but... the enzymes are less affected by temp than the bacteria and yeast. Sourdough starters go from having a level of stiffness to being liquid over time. Your bread is overretarded and almost certainly overproofed as well.

Bake sooner - one to two days after forming the dough and you will almost certainly solve some of your problem.

Good Luck!
Jay
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  #19  
Old 12-19-2010, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: not quite right...

Tman1,

Ah, success. I made two batches of the no-knead un-bleached flour, white bread, today and put them the fridge for later. We used up the last of the first batch for pizza tonight in our wood fired oven, our first wfo pizza by the way! It turned out very good. This was from the dough I thought was a little on the dry side with small crumb. It was fine for pizza though.

As I was making the bread dough today I was explaining to my wife about the qualities of high protein bread flour vs AP and she mentioned that it was all-purpose flour in the container. DOH!! That explains why the first batch of dough wasn't what I expected. I had made a whole batch of dough with AP instead of bread flour. It was good but not the great bread described in the book. The second batch made with high protein bread flour turned out much better and handled differently than the first.

Not only did we make a great loaf of bread after the pizza (with the latest batch of no-knead bread dough) but I made a loaf (with the AP) that had Asiago cheese in it. WOW! What flavor. The wood fired oven cooked the bread to perfection. Our first try.

Here's how we did it. I felt the oven was the correct temperature after cooking and eating the pizza. 20 min. I sprayed about 20 squirts of water into the oven and placed the loaf in the middle. After 7 minutes I checked the bread and turned it 180 deg and sprayed about 10 squirts of water. I closed the door and waited another 22 minutes. The bread was nicely done and with a golden crust. It has a hard crusty shell, just what we like. This dough was a little wetter than with the AP flour and softer too. It slumped a little on the peel while resting but not much. It did raise higher than the AP loaves though. We'll have it toasted for breakfast. Wow, what a great afternoon of cooking and baking. My wife is a good helper and supporter.

Cheers,
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2010, 10:51 AM
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Default Re: not quite right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurentius View Post
Hi Tman1,

A couple of questions. Are you making sour dough, with your old starter? I've only made three loaves of bread in my life and only in the last couple of weeks, but they have been wonderful. I purchased the book,"Tartine Bread", and it states that you should feed your starter, before making your next loaf, and use the young sweet starter as your leven. After mixing your dough, give it an 8 to 12 hour, fermentation rest at room temp of slightly above, folding it once every 30minutes for the first two hours. They also recommend cooking in a stream saturated oven. Last night I added chopped Black Olive, Italian Herbs, Lemon zest and Rosemary Olive oil to my Whole Wheat Sour Dough mix. I'll let you know how it turns out. By the way if you bake with you home oven, try using a cast iron dutch oven(preheated for 20 minute at 500f or 260c, place the bread in the lid and the pot upside down and cook the first twenty minutes(230c) before removing it. This will create steam, cook for an addition 20 minutes uncovered.

Laurentius
Sorry, I didn't see this earlier. I just got a notification moments ago. Wierd.

Sounds great! I don't have a cast iron dutch oven, and don't forsee the purchase in the near future. The light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice for new purchases. Now, if I can get one at a garage sale cheap....
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