#11  
Old 05-14-2012, 06:29 AM
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Default Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

You need to fire up the oven first, then start making the bread. To fully charge the oven will take 2 - 3 hours, at least. Cooling down to baking temp - 550 f or so, will take about as long.

I normally fire up the oven at 8:00, spread the fire and close the door at 11:00 . remove the fire at 12:00 and bake my first batch at 3:30.This gets my oven very, perhaps fully, charged.

Speeding things up by firing for less time results in an oven which loses heat too quickly. Speeding things up by trying to bake sooner burns the bread. Remember that if the oven is properly charged, opening the door and swabbing will only cool the deck temporarily. The deck will go right back up in temperature.

With all bread, time is your friend. With bread and a WFO, time is your best friend.

Karl
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  #12  
Old 05-14-2012, 09:19 PM
SableSprings's Avatar
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Default Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

The wonderful fact that all our ovens are unique poses a difficult task for giving exact timing/firing directions to a fellow baker. I found that until I did several graphs of heat loading and retention in my oven, I really didn't have a manageable situation. I started taking both hourly hearth and dome temperatures during the firing process, through equalization, baking, and finally long after the bread was done. I've added one of my graphs below as a possible guide in developing your own oven's heat characteristics. Every one here has given you great guidelines, but you need to develop your own oven's "pulse".

(Note that I start a small fire in the oven the night before a bake to begin driving heat into the brick...almost always have a 200-300F base at 7 am for the main firing.)
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My journey to prefect Hearth Bread-tempprofile.jpg  
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Last edited by SableSprings; 05-14-2012 at 09:21 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-17-2012, 07:38 AM
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Default Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

I went at it again and .....not so good again.

There is a minor improvement because the bread was not brunt like it was last time. The bottom of the baguette burnt a little which still could be improved. I bake the bread on top of parchment paper and I imagine that it would burned even more if it wasn't for the parchment paper.

However, the taste of the baguette was not as good as last time, even though it was burnt last time. I think I may have over retarded the pate fermentee this time because it was left in the refrigerator close to 4 days. I think it was a little too sour for baguette. Next time, I will ferment the dough no more than 48 hours.

As far as the bagel, I definitely over fermented the dough for the bagel as well. I shaped the dough last Wednesday and it was beautifully shaped. Place in the refrigerator for 4 days as well. After one day, the shape looked similar to the prior day but after day two, it started to sink down. Of course by day four, it was like a disk rather than a bagel.

Mike and Karl, started at fire 7 am and don’t get to bake bread not until at 2 or 3 pm. Wow, that is a lot of heating time. So far, I have been pushing my dough in the WFO around 11:30 am (started the fire at 6:30 am) and I thought that was more than enough time to heat the oven. No wonder bakers go to bed at 6:00 PM. I guess I should just forget about eating bread for lunch and just move eating bread time to dinner instead. Yeah, I am still learning the profile for my WFO and I might was well do a detailed profile study on it as well.
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My journey to prefect Hearth Bread-img_0867.jpg   My journey to prefect Hearth Bread-img_0870.jpg   My journey to prefect Hearth Bread-img_0872.jpg   My journey to prefect Hearth Bread-img_0873.jpg   My journey to prefect Hearth Bread-img_0894.jpg  

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Last edited by banhxeo76; 05-17-2012 at 07:40 AM.
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  #14  
Old 05-17-2012, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

As Mike says, all our ovens are different. That said, to use them properly they need to be well charged with heat, not just brought up to bake temperature. Mike's method of starting a fire the night before should certainly speed this up.

Then, the ovens need to rest to even out the heat, and get down to baking temperature. I spread the fire and leave it in for an hour, then remove it and wait several hours.

In my oven, if I were to start at 6:30, I would not be able to bake properly until about 1:00 - probably too late to bake loaf bread for lunch.

You can make pita or naan at a much higher temperature if you need bread for lunch. These flat breads bake at pizza temperatures - around 750 f deck and 900 f dome.

I think you are very over retarding your dough. I can get away with a four day retard for pizza, but it isn't as good as a shorter retard, and I think a four day retard with bread would be much too long.

Good luck. You'll get the hang of it.

Karl

P.S. Those baguettes aren't really burned, just a little charred. I'd consider that much charring quite acceptable, if not ideal.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

Just as a hint. Due to the higher mass of my oven, I will have a pre-warming fire the night before I bake. That allows me a little more flexibility the next day.

P.S. I am still learning as well, but I agree with Karl that four days is way too long for bread dough to retard in the fridge. If I use too high of a percentage of starter I will have trouble with anything over twenty-four hours

Last edited by Polo; 05-17-2012 at 02:31 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-21-2012, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

I baked some sourdough bread this morning so that I can give to my collegues for Christmas. This is my best result for bread so far. However, it could be a little bit better.
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Last edited by banhxeo76; 01-21-2013 at 06:24 AM.
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  #17  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

I think I found the perfect recipe for my favorite hearth bread. A couple of weeks ago, I was looking at YouTube for any ideas or tips on how to bake bread and I ran into Chad Robertson who owes Tartine Bakery along with his wife. His bread hydration is about 73% which is the highest hydration % that I have ever done. I found his kneading technique to be very efficient. Ever 30 minutes, just a few stretch and fold for over 3 hours. Then shaped the dough and place it in a round basket and let it fermented over night in my garage which was about 50 degree. Even though the bread didn't caramelized as much as the bread at Tartine, it was still my best bread ever. The holes were irregular and there is nothing better than the smell of fresh bake bread when I opened the door of my WFO. After letting the bread rest for 30 minutes, I just ripe one loaf apart and stuffed my face with it. I had bake nine loaves of 700 grams boules that morning and I gave some breads to some of my lucky neighbors who are happened to be home at the moment. There just something so therapeutic about baking bread. It really relaxed me and I am just looking forward to my Saturday because that is my day of baking bread from now on. I really love baking bread!
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My journey to prefect Hearth Bread-img_1894.jpg   My journey to prefect Hearth Bread-img_1895.jpg   My journey to prefect Hearth Bread-img_1899.jpg   My journey to prefect Hearth Bread-img_1900.jpg   My journey to prefect Hearth Bread-img_1904.jpg  

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Old 01-07-2013, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

Crumb and color look good. A couple of minor suggestions/comments.

Your oven temp was almost certainly a bit low when you loaded if you want the Tartine look. Probably 10 to 15 degrees in the dome. You don't show us the bottoms of the loaves but they look like they might be a hair light. The 10 to 15, maybe 20 degree hotter hearth/dome will help that too if I am right.

You appear to have some blowouts on the sides (light also) which indicates your loaves were too close together. Also, did you move the loaves around/rearrange them during the baking? That can help with blowouts (sometimes) and more uniform baking/color.

The crumb is wonderfully random. Nice job. But it is tight for a really wet dough loaf like Tartine. You are probably a hair underproofed and your handling/forming is probably a bit off - most likely too late in forming. When I do Tartine I have to shorten the bulk fermentation a bit and extend the final proof to get the crumb right. Handling and forming take time so...keep doing it. It will come around...

Tartine makes great bread. Hope these comments help! And there is nothing particularly inferior about what you made. My comments are strictly relative to the true Tartine.

Bake On!
Jay
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  #19  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:41 AM
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Default Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

Jay,

Thanks for your suggestions/comments as always. I loaded the dough into the WFO when the air temp was reading at 500 F and the floor/dome’s surface readings were reading at 550 F. However, after I loaded 6300 gram (14lbs) of dough into the WFO, the air temp never go past 410 F. I thought my temp were a little too high. I should of take some photo on the bottom of the loaves because it actually has a nice dark caramelized color which I was aiming for. I think my temp was okay because if it was any hotter, I would definitely burn the bottom of the loaves. After they were baked for 15 minutes, I opened the door to let the steam out for about 30 seconds and noticed that there were some blowouts on most of the loaves and as matter of fact, two of the loaves’ blow out were so big that the blowouts were touching on each other. I only did one slash for each loaf which may not be enough and one slash only may have caused the blowouts on the side of the loaves. I will do at least 4 slashes (which resemble # sign) per loaf next time. I didn’t think of moving the loaf around and I will definitely do that this Saturday because I can see how that could help with the color. I do agreed that the final proof could be extended which will certainly help with the holes in the crumb and allowed more time for starch to be converted to sugar which will certainly give the crust more blisters and darker tone. Another reason why my loaves were not dark all around is because the dough was stuck to the cloth liner on the basket during the final proof and I lost a portion layer of good color when I tried to flip the dough onto the peeler. I feared that if I increase the fermented time on the final proof, they would stick even more to the cloth liner basket. I am just using high gluten flour on the cloth liner as a release agent.
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  #20  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: My journey to prefect Hearth Bread

- quote from banhxeo76 post 19 above-
"Another reason why my loaves were not dark all around is because the dough was stuck to the cloth liner on the basket during the final proof and I lost a portion layer of good color when I tried to flip the dough onto the peeler. I feared that if I increase the fermented time on the final proof, they would stick even more to the cloth liner basket. I am just using high gluten flour on the cloth liner as a release agent."

Switch to rice flour to help release your bread dough from the bannetons & couche cloth instead of regular bread or AP flour. I put the rice flour in a small shaker, sprinkle it over the cloth and then lightly rub it over the surface to distribute and get it into the linen fibers. I've had some pretty wet doughs and not experienced a "sticking problem" with this technique. The same sprinkle with rice flour in your banneton will allow good release when you flip the proofed loaf to the peel (I also sprinkle a bit of rice flour on the peel so the loaf slides freely--if I'm not using parchment paper on the flipped loaf bottom...)
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