#31  
Old 08-18-2009, 09:00 AM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

So, do you shape your loaf and then press your fingers into the loaf? Do you have a picture? I'm visualizing either a batard or a round, having been coaxed into having a nice tight outside and then finger-poked pretty hard. Like foccacia-poked. I think I'll have to cut my nails!

I don't use a lot of bowls/brotforms these days- I've gotten pretty good at getting a decent rise without one. I only use the one I have to get the pretty design on the loaf! Of course, I do use parchment paper to set my loaves upon.

I'll look for the Yellingbo. I may be able to find it up in Roanoke at the Fresh Market there. My "good" oil of choice I can get locally is the Luccini you had mentioned on a thread here somewhere. I've been using it for several years. I'm going to ask for some of the FB oil for my birthday too! I'd love to be able to have olive trees, but that will not be happening here- it's too cold. I have to baby my rosemary bush outrageously to keep it alive all winter! And tomatoes are finished here with the first frost in mid-October (if we're lucky).
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  #32  
Old 08-18-2009, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

I have not photographed it. I will next time I make it.

Long nails won't work! You basically poke all the way down into the boule shortly pretty much when you put it in the oven. Say a poke every inch and a half or so - lots. The pokes will inflate during the baking and the loaf will be pretty much smooth on top. Best picture I have seen is on Carol Fields Italian Baker book. Can be really pretty! I slashed my last batch just to be different! I just realized I was mixing languages - it is Pane Pugliese! It is done as sort of free form boules. Usually pretty big 2-3 pounds. Not carefully rounded like a French boule. Rather rustic and funky!

I figured you were too cold for olives, but I thought rosemary was tough! How high are you?

RE: Oil. The FB oil is superb! Most of the real Italin oils in pint or so cans should be pretty good. I think I said this, but I would suggest NOT buying Yellingbo if it is over a year old. (It would be good, but at one year most oils are declining.) Also good to buy bottles that are in boxes (keep light out). To that end there are some very good foil pak oils (i.e. soft plastic and foil bags).

Here a a couple of premium oils to watch for: Dell' Ugo, Colonna, Tenuta Caparzo, Saragano, Badia a Coltibuono (this last seems more commonly available!). I also like McEvoy Ranch but it feels a bit overpriced. All of these are drizzling oils for finishing food.

Good luck!
Jay
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  #33  
Old 08-18-2009, 10:36 AM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

I actually have that Carol Fields book. I'll look it up.

We're at nearly 2000 feet here. It gets down below zero sometimes in the winter, but more regularly it'll get to 10-15 degrees during the coldest part of winter. Rosemary isn't reliably hardy below 15 ish, and I cover it up if it's going to be below 20. I use an old horse blanket- it's the only thing I could find that was big enough that could take being outside all winter without rotting!

Oh, and I was kidding about the nails, I'd hate to try to bake (or deal with my horses) with long nails. Ick on the crud sticking under them....
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  #34  
Old 08-18-2009, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

Pane Pugliese is on the cover on both the front and rear - the two largish, roundish, boulish loaves.

Sounds like you are high enough to have a relatively pleasant summer. I am at 1000 ft and it is too low!

Let's see, long nails, horse$^%*, and breadmaking...sounds like a delightfully aromatic combination! ) Glad to know you are short nailed!
Jay
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  #35  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

You put the tip in all the way as far as you can, and aerosol for at atomic 10 seconds, affairs it boring advanced as you go, until the beef is rolling out the aperture and up the chimney. Slap your aperture on and you're good! I let the beef out afterwards about 10 minutes, move any loaves about that charge it, and put the aperture aback on until I anticipate it's time.


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Old 08-19-2009, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

You put the tip in all the way as far as you can, and aerosol for at atomic 10 seconds, affairs it boring advanced as you go, until the beef is rolling out the aperture and up the chimney. Slap your aperture on and you're good! I let the beef out afterwards about 10 minutes, move any loaves about that charge it, and put the aperture aback on until I anticipate it's time.


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  #37  
Old 08-19-2009, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

Right on with me to with both Elizabeth and Jay. Our rule of thumb is to look for about 80% proofed...the last bit will happen in the oven. My suggestion is to try to handle your dough less as Jay suggests...not so much degassing of the dough and more of just a couple of turns, then a rest and then just tighten up the surface before going in the basket or onto the couche or whereever it will get its final proof. I have gotten to poking the loaves to check the proof...recovers instantly and completely not ready...recovers a bit but still shows signs of the poke is just right...if it doesnt recover at all...well it is too far gone...hope that helps a bit
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

Bakers,

Here is my latest effort at the same loaves. I'm not sure whether I'm getting closer to where I should be with the crumb or not; I don't have a good point of reference.

I did add two oz. more of water to get it to a 65% hydration. I also put the loaves in to the oven right of the fridge. The oven was ready to go and I didn't want to re-fire it.

My kids got Reinhart's BBA for me last week. The power went out the other night, so by flashlight in one sitting I read through all of the intro chapters up to the beginning of the recipes. Anybody have any favorite breads from that book that they like?
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  #39  
Old 09-01-2009, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gromit View Post
Bakers,

Here is my latest effort at the same loaves. I'm not sure whether I'm getting closer to where I should be with the crumb or not; I don't have a good point of reference.

I did add two oz. more of water to get it to a 65% hydration. I also put the loaves in to the oven right of the fridge. The oven was ready to go and I didn't want to re-fire it.

My kids got Reinhart's BBA for me last week. The power went out the other night, so by flashlight in one sitting I read through all of the intro chapters up to the beginning of the recipes. Anybody have any favorite breads from that book that they like?
Gromit
As far as the cool fermentation goes we have not had great results with a wild yeasted starter and a refridgerated proof. Got similar results to what you show. IMHO you should stick to the formula as you are doing it and improve your dough handling and heat management skills. Bread dough and your oven are things you work with and the more that relationship improves the better your results will be...almost no matter the type of bread or formula that you use. You will gain a greater understanding of what makes a great loaf of bread as you continue to bake and refer to an excellent book like the BBA. They are all great breads but, if I had to pick a great on to start with it would be the Italian bread. It is the one I recommend to all our first time bread eaters because it plays well with everything. From a baker's perspective it is quite consistent and using a biga preferment will help you better understand the wild yeast starter. You can play with some of the variables and you will notice the difference in the results.
Enjoy!
Dutch
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  #40  
Old 09-02-2009, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

Hi David!

Dutch is right on! Perhaps this will add a bit of extra insight???

Wild yeasts are a bit slower than commercial yeast. When you are proofing you are striving to build up gas (mainly CO2 but alcohols as well) both in the pockets AND in the dough (dissolved). There are two key things happening. The yeast is making CO2 and, at the same time, CO2 is leaking out. When you chill the dough you do a lot of things. One is you slow down the yeast and CO2 generation. You also increase the ability of the dough to hold CO2 in solution (and thus slow transfer to the pockets). The bacteria and enzymes will not slow down much and will continue to add flavor and and the enzymes will increase the sugar level. If you bake it immediately the dough will be relatively stiff and the pockets will be relatively small. The following is speculative but I would expect the outer dough "baking" while the interior is cold to affect oven spring also. Especially at the end when the center is trying to expand and the outer layers have directionally "set".

Looking at your loaf, it looks underproofed (big rip at the slash) which says it had plenty of gas, but the pockets are small - suggesting the gas was not given enough time to accumulate in the pockets. The crust is thick which suggests good humidity in the oven, but the crumb and crust color give me the feeling it was baked at a relatively low temp and that the internal temp only reached 203 or so. This is personal taste, but I like a hotter bake, darker crust and I like to push my breads to the 208-209 range.

I recognize the oven was ready and that determined your time. You would have had much better crumb if you had been able to take it out of the fridge two to three hours before baking to let the dough warm, to let the yeast eat the accumulated sugar from the enzyme action, and to let CO2 move from the dough to the pockets to give a more open crumb.

All that said, I am not as happy with my sourdough when I retard the boules. Never comes out right... (not bad, just not what I want).

Hope that is useful!
Jay
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