#91  
Old 09-25-2009, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

Dutch,

I love the book title! Don't you wish you could have put a "Welcome Crappy Golfers" sign in your pro shop? I'm sure it would be entirely accurate at most courses.
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  #92  
Old 09-26-2009, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

I took another go at sourdough loaves today, following Jay's expansion method as closely as possible. These were 68BP; no autolyse; 15 minutes hand kneading; 3 hour bulk ferment; baked in a pot in an electric oven for about 45 minutes @ 425-450F. The 1st loaf (the one on the right in the 1st pic) had a 1.75 hr proof; the 2nd loaf had a 2.5 hr proof. When shaping the loaves, I was able to stretch a tighter skin over one of them, but I lost track of which loaf was which, so I am not sure whether the difference in how the loaves spread out and rose was due to the proof time or the shaping.

I still need some serious help with my docking. I tend to resort to a sort of sawing motion. Is this normal and necessary? Do I need to dip my lame in water or oil?
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  #93  
Old 09-26-2009, 03:26 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

Hi David!

You are now much closer to what I like. (But that doesn't mean its better!) That has to be up to you!

The loaf on the right is just about right IMO. I would have probably baked it a bit longer but the rip on the slash and the crumb look good to me! What do you think?

I like the color of the darker one. It "looks" overproofed in oven spring and slash look but the color doesn't look badly overproofed so I am guessing it was a little unhappy with your handling. But... that is learning. It looks really good. Might also be a bit related to not being as "tight" when formed but...I don't buy that.

RE: Lame. You have to be brave. Make sure the blade is CLEAN (no dried dough bits or scum) or it will grab. Second DON'T GO SLOW. A slash is not two or three seconds in duration. IT IS A SLASH - quarter second or so. And yes you will screw up but you will get better and the slashes will be slashes and not whatever those other "pulled" looking things are. (I only recently really started slashing and it makes a big diff. Easy for boules where you just need to make a # pattern. MUCH harder for baguettes where they really need to be precise if the loaf is to behave properly!)

Way to go! Bravo!
Jay
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  #94  
Old 09-26-2009, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gromit View Post
Dutch,

I love the book title! Don't you wish you could have put a "Welcome Crappy Golfers" sign in your pro shop? I'm sure it would be entirely accurate at most courses.
Thanks! We did not have a welcome crappy golfers sign in the shop I worked in but, we did have a sign that listed "Rates for Sympathetic Listening" so if you walked in and started to tell us all the grim details of your round that day or whenever we had fees listed for things like..."Description of perfectly struck tee shot- $ .50" etc....had one guy come in once and start on that tirade about how horribly he'd played, then noticed the sign and said, "That's not for real, is it?"

On your bread...looks great! I'm with Jay on the comments...can't really add anything to his comments. Good job...practice, patience and time and you'll get it...just like golf.
Best
Dutch
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  #95  
Old 09-28-2009, 06:37 AM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchoven View Post
practice, patience and time and you'll get it...just like golf.
That is NOT what I need to hear. I have been hacking golf balls for twenty-five years, and I still stink.


Quote:
Originally Posted by texassourdough View Post
The loaf on the right is just about right IMO. I would have probably baked it a bit longer but the rip on the slash and the crumb look good to me! What do you think?
I haven't been doing this long enough to be sure of what I like. Cooking the bread in a pot yielded a thinner crust than what I have got out of the WFO so far. I was very happy with the crumb. I had some extra pizza dough, so I practiced some quick slashes as Jay suggested. It worked great, so I really look forward to trying that on my next batch of bread.
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  #96  
Old 09-28-2009, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

Hi David!

Dutch suggests baking is like golf but you won't spend as much time in sand traps or experiencing sheer disasters!

The cloche approach tends to give a thinner crust and not be as crunchy. But it gives really pretty color! Did you leave the pot on the whole time? The norm on cloches and boules is to bake covered for 15 minutes and then to finished (for me another 27 minutes -42 total - at 435 o F. The easiest way to get a thicker, crunchier crust is to leave it in the oven with the door cracked open while the oven cools (for about ten more minutes). (If you do that you MIGHT want to shorten the bake very slightly - say 2-3 minutes so you don't overheat the bread or make it darker than you want.

Glad the slashing worked for you!
Jay
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  #97  
Old 10-05-2009, 05:28 AM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

This batch should have been the best yet--everything was going perfect--and then I burnt the loaves. I still need a lot of practice with the slashing, but thanks to Jay's tip, I feel like I'm going about it the right way.

I figured out that if I really heat load my oven, I can get a lot longer retained heat. After pizzas Sat. night, I closed up the oven at 8:00PM. These loaves went in the oven Sun afternoon at 3:15PM and the hearth measured 510F. I left these in for 35 min which was obviously too long. I am excited about being able to bake so late the next day after pizza; that will give me a near full day to ferment and proof at my leisure.
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  #98  
Old 10-05-2009, 06:18 AM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

Hi David!

First, congrats on the heat retention! You have a really efficient oven! As you suggest, that will give you a lot of time freedom for having the bread peaking.

RE: burned. Hard to believe you got them so far in only 35 minutes. But they are only a bit darker than I like. Did you get an internal temperature?

Did you mop the floor before you put the bread in? That has the advantage of both humidifying the oven and cooling the hearth a bit.

The only thing that's bad about having a 500 degree oven the next afternoon is that you have to wait to the second day to do your slow roasts! )

Hang in there!
Jay
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:55 AM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

It makes a huge difference for the retained heat whether the oven is fired 1.5 hr or 3 hr. When I pulled the oven door, the hearth measured 540F. I scooped the coals, raked the ashes, and took a leaf blower to what was left. No mopping. By the time I was done with that, the hearth was at 510F--it may have have bounced back up from there and hence the burning. I loaded 5.5 lb. bread and filled oven with steam from garden mister. When the door came off 35 minutes later, there was a puff of steam escaping--I couldn't see it but could feel it. I took it as a sign that I don't need to do multiple mistings during the first minutes of baking. Internal temp was 209F.
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  #100  
Old 10-05-2009, 07:51 AM
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Default Re: First loaves of bread

When I check my oven for retained heat cooking, the hearth is always much cooler than the dome. A hearth temp of 540 is about right for bread. You definitely depressed it and it definitely bounced back to some extent. I would suggest mopping first (with a damp towel/rag - not sopping) to knock the temp down even more. One of the challenges of light loads in the oven is the temp doesn't drop down as far as you it would with a fully loaded oven so you bake too hot (i.e. average temp is high so you bake faster than a loaded oven), and you will tend to be short on humidity.

Your internal temp is good - could be a bit lower but...I usually do 208-209 so....I don't consider that too high.

I would suggest opening the oven at about 20 minutes and checking the bread - move it around some/look for uneven baking. Unlikely to be a problem but it will let you see the bread. Also, it is fine for the steam to be let out and finish "dry".

Bake On!
Jay
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