Bread Making - Questions Galore! Hearth Bread and Flatbread Discuss Bread Making - Questions Galore! in the Brick Oven Cooking forums; Was surfing some old posts and thought I would resurrect this one...I think we have some more avid baker's on ...

[Dutchoven]

Was surfing some old posts and thought I would resurrect this one...I think we have some more avid baker's on the than might have been back then so I thought it would be good to hear some new questions!
Best
Dutch

[MoonshineBaker]

Dutch,
I have a few questions. Though there are many variables, after 4 different batches of ciabatta ala Reinhart, I have found that the ciabatta turns out denser- has a tighter crumb when I double the recipe. Any idea what might be happening? I use Giusto's Baker's Choice organic unbleached flour. Does anyone have experience on the difference between Giusto's and King Arthur's bread flours? And- are all dry yeast's that you can buy the same? For example: star vs. fleischman vs giusto? (I once used yeast that's used for making beer; it worked but I couldn't say it was noticeably different- again too many variables.) Thanks! Richard

[gjbingham]

Dutch,
Thanks. I'd never seen this thread. Its a good read!

[Dutchoven]

George,
Chasin' after your meteoric rise to 1000 posts...had to bring up something I am good at

Moonshine
It really only happens when you double the recipe?...your's is a difficult question...ciabatta actually has many variations and some are a tighter crumbed variety...can be made with wheat flour and may have milk added to enrich the dough...were you working with a poolish or a biga?...ours generally have a tighter crumb when working from the firmer biga and more open when we use the poolish...generally the openess of the crumb is a result of very high hydration...between 70 and 80 percent...having looked at the giusto's website the flour should work well although the higher gluten flour could help some...you really have to push the dough to the brink of becoming batter and then handle it very gently...I will consider this more as it is puzzling that you can do the basic recipe with the results you like ...you really have to eliminate each variable one by one...hydration is really key to what you are looking for though
CJim might come in on something I missed!
Have not used Giusto's or King Arthur flours with any of our bread...very difficult and costly to get it here...the active dry yeasts will, for the most part be the same, (we are able to get fleischmans mostly), so long as you don't have something of the "rapid rise" variety...as far as brewer's yeast or champagne yeast they are yeast strains that tolerate the higher levels of alcohol where most other yeast would become dormant or die...but they will still make bread!
Best
Dutch

[carioca]

Originally Posted by james

<snip>

I would argue that real wood coals are better, but people stay hooked. I'm digressing.

<snip>

To digress even further, if I may: charcoal is supposed to provide greater heat than wood, which is why it's used in smelting metals etc... The only thing it needs to get/keep going is lots of oxygen!

I thought the other day - since I'm collecting heaps of charcoal from forno del gallo - that I should experiment with ducting air into the dome, perhaps propelled by a little windmill on top, for fanning the charcoal a bit :-)

One could perhaps even use the dome for brazing or smelting in this way...

Cheers,

LMH

[CanuckJim]

Dutch,

You nailed it in one word: hydration. Nothing for me to add, except to say practice using kid gloves when handling wet dough.

Jim

[david s]

Carioca,
Try using your wife's hair dryer. The size is ideal. Just enough blast. For fun I tried to see how hot I could get my oven. I stopped when it got to 550 C didn't want to stress the oven too much, but the temp really rockets up, actually far too hot for cooking. Never bother now, but it's fun if like playing with fire. Iv'e got girls and we must have at least 6 old hair dryers, give it a shot.

[MoonshineBaker]

Dutch / Jim, Thanks for the ideas on hydration. I'll push the hydration higher than in Reinhart's Bread Baker's Apprentice and use a poolish and see what I can do. In order to get more gluten, I'll also try mixing 50/50 Giusto's Baker's Choice flour (11-11.5% protein) with their Ultimate Performance flour (13-13.5% protein). I also have gluten flour (70% protein) which I use when making my whole wheat bread- I add about 1/2 cup per a mix of about 10 cups freshly ground hard red winter wheat berries with about 6 cups Giusto's Baker's Choice and 4 cups (66%/33%) of a hydrated 9 grain cereal with polenta. I've found that the gluten flour in my whole wheat bread makes for a much better crumb. Any thoughts about putting some gluten flour in the ciabatta mix to push the protein up to 14-15%? AND- I've recently been adding some lemon juice (1/2 teaspoon per recipe in the above Reinhart book) to the pane de compangne ; I get a much better rise and crumb. Any thoughts about putting some lemon juice in the ciabatta - or is that sacrilegious? P.S. - I really enjoyed my Chem Craft chemistry set as a child. Richard

[arevalo53anos]

MsB:

The use of lemon juice is to elevate the acidity of the dough. Same thing when using vinager.
Or, if you ask for something not sacrilegious, why not use biga?
Biga is a low hidration sponge prepared from 15 to 24 hours in antecedence.
The results using biga are better if you use Manitoba (320W or higher) flour in it and low quantity of ferment (1g)
A low hidrated sponge worked by so high time, develops high acidity level.
The biga is used in quantities between 30 to 40% of the final dough.
Normally, the final dough is completed with the use of weaker flour (250W).
Great crust, big openings, superior taste.

Luis

[MoonshineBaker]

Luis
Thank you for the information. It took me a bit of research to find out what 320"W" flour is. It appears to be related to- but is not the same as the %protein. "W" measures the extensibility of the flour dough. Do you know of any way to relate the "W" number to the % protein?
Richard