Go Back   Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community > Brick Oven Cooking > Hearth Bread and Flatbread

Like Tree1Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 06-04-2012, 12:42 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: Biggest Sourdough Bake Yet!

Hi Bill/okn!

IMO judging proofness in unbaked loaves is not particularly trivial/easy. The rule of thumb is "Wet a finger and poke the dough, if it springs back quickly it is not proofed, if it rebounds slowly it is ready to bake!" (Wet the finger so it doesn't stick!) While this is "right" the nuance of fast and slow are elusive and hydration and dough development play a role also. Once you get used to a certain dough/feel and you get consistent in your loaf hydration, forming and such it gets easier but that's really not much help for a beginner! I don't know a better way but...it's about all we have.

There is a touch component that I think you will recognize rather quickly Bill, based on your fast progress. The dough and loaves should have a "lightness" and a feeling of being alive (this is also true at loaf formation). If the dough is heavy and cold and stiff the loaves are (unless retarded and fresh from the fridge) not ready. This too is simplistic but...when you try to bake on a cold day and you have proofed your loaves at room temp and they are bricks - they aren't ready no matter how long they have proofed (voice of experience!).

One last mathematical factoid. The peak amount of gas in the lof will occur around the point of max proofing when the rate of generation equals that of leakage (which is probably shortly after "perfect proof" as I described it before. (for I think leakage lags generation in well developed doughs). By having "most" of the CO2 having migrated to the bubbles, the dough matrix of the loaf has generally expanded to accept the CO2. This contributes to it not "ripping" so badly!

Bake on!
Jay
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-04-2012, 10:22 PM
WJW WJW is offline
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 367
Default Re: Biggest Sourdough Bake Yet!

Great info Jay.

And I think I know what you mean about the loaves/dough feeling alive. There is a certain lightness...maybe even a little bit like a warm balloon...but not tight like a baloon...but light and somewhat inflated like a balloon...that the loaves take on at some point in the process. I don't think I'm describing it well, but at some point in the process you realize they are definitely different (on multiple levels) than they were an hour earlier.

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-05-2012, 05:11 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: Biggest Sourdough Bake Yet!

You are on it, Bill. Lightness and touch, alone are not enough to judge proof, but as I indicated neither is time. It is everything together. There are some wonderful dough forming videos (I need to find the right ones!) that shows handling big blobs of dough that are clearly "alive". The dough bounces and sort of shimmies. It doesn't just "plop" onto the work surface in a "splat". At the point of being properly proofed the dough has a somewhat fragile feel (again a function of flour and hydration but...for a given flour/hydration it has delicate quality). One of my favorite breads is Pane Casareccio di Genzano which is made in 8 pound loaves that are literally like a pillow when proofed (about 74 percent hydration BF). (It is so inflated I can only get about a four pound loaf in my regular oven!) It wobbles all over the place as I shift it onto the stone! Crazy!
Jay
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-05-2012, 08:09 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
Posts: 1,156
Default Re: Biggest Sourdough Bake Yet!

I've been working on a sourdough country loaf with Spelt and Rye added and running at 80% hydration and at the end of proofing the dough reminds me of jello. It's not over proofed but darn close and I'm a bit in fear of loosing gas. From the dough!..

Congrats Bill, very nice.

Chris

PS Jay thanks for the info about spliting and under proofed. It really clarifyed where the dough is at this point in bread making and how heat, CO2 and the ability of the dough to accept the oven spring or not relate.

Last edited by SCChris; 06-05-2012 at 08:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-05-2012, 11:55 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: Biggest Sourdough Bake Yet!

Thanks, Chris! I knew there would be people who would appreciate it. The "essay" was probably too detailed but...there are a lot of things that fit together if you are to truly understand the process.

80% hydration spelt/rye sounds tricky. Not much gluten in there if they are more than minor ingredients! I like spelt. Weird stuff but tasty.

Happy baking!
Jay
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-05-2012, 01:02 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
Posts: 1,156
Default Re: Biggest Sourdough Bake Yet!

The last batch was 80 AP 14 Spelt and 6 Rye, this was a small shift from the last batch where I ran AP/Spelt at 80/20 but the feel of adding in the Rye is marked. I do like the change that the other grains bring to the table. My plan has been to get comfortable with a formula and move on to some next bread. Poilane / country whole grain breads is where I imagine I'm heading, but time will tell..

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-05-2012, 01:43 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: Biggest Sourdough Bake Yet!

80 percent AP will work! That will be a delciate loaf though!

Funny you mention Poilane. I just got back from France about a week ago and went to Poilane for the first time. I found the trip rewarding enough that I finally followed through and started a bread blog. My goal is to blog on breadmaking in general and to build a library of recommended bakeries around the world. Two of my four posts so far involve Poilane. One is on Eric Kayser. You can find the blog at jayonbread.wordpress.com/.

I really like miche. I think they age far more gracefully than smaller loaves and have more flavor. (I think less aromatics leak out during the proofing! There are VERY serious bakers - like SFBI - that believe bulk fermentation in batches below say 2.5 kilos or so have less flavor. My experience suggests it applies to the loaf too.)

Thanks!
Jay
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-05-2012, 11:24 PM
WJW WJW is offline
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 367
Default Re: Biggest Sourdough Bake Yet!

Thank you Chris.

I'm going to try some of these miche loaves next...and maybe see if I can improve my baguette technique...and maybe get some additional grains in.

Jay: The blog is great!

Bill

Last edited by WJW; 06-05-2012 at 11:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-06-2012, 05:37 AM
Faith In Virginia's Avatar
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 720
Default Re: Biggest Sourdough Bake Yet!

Bill, Just wanted to chime in. Looking good, you really have stepped up your game in such a short time. I can see Jay is guiding you along nicely. Great job Jay. But I can tell you will have many more successful bakes as time goes on.

Happy baking, congrats Faith
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-06-2012, 07:40 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
Posts: 1,156
Default Re: Biggest Sourdough Bake Yet!

As Jay has pointed out many times before, it’s easier to know why some good thing and not so good thing has happened if small, single item, changes have been made to a recipe. My motivation has been to work in this mode. I start with a recipe, formula and do my best to make it my good friend before changing the percentages of water or swapping in whole wheat, or spelt or a bit of rye for some other flour. I want a specific quantity of dough so that the shape in my hand is known and the shaping is known and the proofing time at a temp is knowable. 800g is my current dough ball weight. This also helps me feel the difference that a particular flour has changed the dough. This normalization allows me to have a better feel for what temp and how long the bread needs and to adjust it next time if the bake needs adjustment. I should be better about taking notes, but for me, as long as I get a baseline recipe solid then making little changes and taking mental notes seems to be working..


At this point I want to broaden my sourdough country boule to include more whole grains. Some soaked cracked wheat, sunflower seeds, caraway etc..

As I tell my wife, bread making is a cheap diversion from the daily grind. We couldn’t afford a boat. Boat being an acronym for Break Out Another Thousand.

:-)

Chris

Last edited by SCChris; 06-06-2012 at 07:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sourdough crust splatgirl Pizza 57 08-02-2011 12:37 PM
Sourdough Bread FAILURE!! EricU Hearth Bread and Flatbread 78 04-27-2011 05:54 AM
Chocolate Cherry Sourdough Bread Modthyrth Hearth Bread and Flatbread 11 05-05-2010 10:59 PM
Dissapointing Bake DrakeRemoray Hearth Bread and Flatbread 11 11-15-2006 08:31 AM
Two-day Bread Bake CanuckJim Heat Management 2 06-25-2006 07:22 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:50 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC