#21  
Old 05-07-2008, 12:47 AM
Frances's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Allschwil, Switzerland
Posts: 2,186
Default Re: Back in Business & Baking Bread!

Hey guys, I didn't know you could bake bread that hot... why the lower temps for sourdough George? Or is that just because you do it last?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-07-2008, 05:03 AM
Dutchoven's Avatar
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 931
Default Re: Back in Business & Baking Bread!

We do sometimes...depends on the formula...and how brave you are...I remember CJim saying he had popped some baguettes in one time when his floor was like 625 ...in 8 minutes he had beauties!
My grandfather used to say "It's all in the way you hold your tongue."
Sourdough at that temp is probably quite crusty, longer lower drier bake makes for more crust. I think I will have to give it a try sometime.
Remember to let the oven rest in between loads...it will recover a good bit of baking heat...longer rest as times wears on....those bricks store a lot of heat
Best
Dutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frances View Post
Hey guys, I didn't know you could bake bread that hot... why the lower temps for sourdough George? Or is that just because you do it last?
__________________
"Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. " Charles Mingus
"Build at least two brick ovens...one to make all the mistakes on and the other to be just like you dreamed of!" Dutch
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-07-2008, 11:07 AM
gjbingham's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Longview, WA
Posts: 2,021
Default Re: Back in Business & Baking Bread!

I mostly let it cool down a bit more for sourdough because I'm using Reinhart's recipe which calls for 500 degrees and then turning it down to 425. The bake time is 20 plus minutes. Mine are going more than 30 minutes to get the bread to 205 degrees.
__________________
GJBingham
-----------------------------------
Everyone makes mistakes. The trick is to make mistakes when nobody is looking.

-
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-07-2008, 11:25 AM
james's Avatar
Brick Oven Merchant
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pebble Beach, CA
Posts: 4,648
Default Re: Back in Business & Baking Bread!

You can bake hotter in a WFO than you can in a conventional oven without burning. A bread that will go black in an electric oven at 550F, comes out carmelized brown in a wood-fired oven at 550F.

Fun, fun.

James
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-07-2008, 12:18 PM
CanuckJim's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Prince Albert, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,480
Default Re: Back in Business & Baking Bread!

George,

The ideal temp I use for sourdough boule is 550 F on the hearth. You really have to get outside the box; that is outside comparing the times and temps listed for home or deck ovens and the times and temps in a WFO. They are completely different things. This is one of the principal themes of the bread workshops I teach. The first is an air temperature reading, while the second is a masonry reading. They are not remotely similar.

The rule of thumb I give my students is that if a recipe written for a home oven says, for example, 500 F for forty minutes to bake a 2 lb. boule, then in a WFO with a hearth temperature of 550 F it will take twenty-two minutes to reach an internal temperature of 205 F. One of the things that these kinds of temps give you in your WFO is beautifully caramelized grain sugars on the crust. Sourdough boule are made using a lean dough, while breads enriched with things like butter and milk should be baked in a WFO at an ideal hearth temperature of between 475 and 500.

So the rule is: in a WFO, bake hotter, bake shorter, cut the home oven recipe bake time in half, then experiment from there.

To illustrate the point, at last weekend's workshop we baked quite large baguette, with very good steam, on a 690 F hearth. They took six minutes to reach 205 internal. For instruction purposes, I left the door off for longer than I normally would before steaming, so they could see that at such high temps the loaves began to brown and rise almost as soon as they hit the brick, much like a pizza. The crust was nicely caramelized and the bottoms of the loaves were white; nothing burned. Simply put, the students were stunned that we pulled it off.

I've read that in Paris baguette are the first bakes of the day, and the hearth temperature is sometimes as high as 750. Haven't tried that yet, but I will.

I prefer my baguette crust to be on the thin side, but to make it thicker and crunchier, I would have vented the steam at the two minute mark, rather than three, and baked them for seven minutes.

Jim
__________________
"Made are tools, and born are hands"--William Blake, 1757-1827

Last edited by CanuckJim; 05-07-2008 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Incomplete
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-07-2008, 12:42 PM
Frances's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Allschwil, Switzerland
Posts: 2,186
Default Re: Back in Business & Baking Bread!

This is a question that I should have asked ages ago, but I only just thought of it...

What IS the air temperature in a WFO when the hearth reaches 550?

Because my thermometer pokes through the door and measures the temp about 5 cm above the hearth... Maybe 550 air temp would be a bit too much even for WFO bread?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-07-2008, 01:40 PM
james's Avatar
Brick Oven Merchant
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pebble Beach, CA
Posts: 4,648
Default Re: Back in Business & Baking Bread!

Temperature, temperature everywhere. Our ovens have different temperatures at different spots in the dome and the floor -- and I have never done a scientific test of the difference between the air temperature and the refractory temperature.

At bread temperature, I always just stick my hand in there and count Mississippis.

Jim, what do you think?

James
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-07-2008, 10:41 PM
gjbingham's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Longview, WA
Posts: 2,021
Default Re: Back in Business & Baking Bread!

CJim,
Good lesson. Thanks for taking the time to post. Believe me, I throw my sourdough in at about 550 floor temps. As I've said, the floor cools quickly. I go from 650 to 450 in an hour. Its kind of hit and miss. A small window to get all the bread in there at the right time. I'd hoped for better, but regardless, it works. Its just a matter of paying attention and being ready to go when the time comes to put in the bread. I've blackened a few loaves of ciabbatta along the way, so I'm pretty careful not to load the oven till I get to 625 (floor temp) or so. It may just be a matter of giving the oven an extra hour of fire before baking. The extra heat in the bricks might do wonders for my results.
My management techniques are not quite up to par yet either. I've got everything out and proofing, but just two peels to put the bread into the oven with. The boules are pretty large, so its just one per peel. That's after the ciabatta or whatever else I'm baking. I need a couple more peels to make me more efficient. Flouring just the two in between subsequent loadings while messing around with misting the oven really slows me down.
It''s not a huge issue yet anyway. I'm still not that happy with my wild yeast starter. Its still an infant and the sourness is lacking. Funny, it was really nice for the first bake, then faded to insigificant. I recently went back to rye flour for feeding. Perhaps that will help.
__________________
GJBingham
-----------------------------------
Everyone makes mistakes. The trick is to make mistakes when nobody is looking.

-
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-08-2008, 04:03 AM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brazil
Posts: 306
Default Re: Back in Business & Baking Bread!

GJB:

You could try to feed your starter as a biga, meaning 45% hidratyon or so. More acidity and so far better to bread making.

Luis
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does the oven have to get to pizza heat for baking bread? Frances Heat Management 6 11-19-2007 05:24 PM
Newbie bread baking question dbhansen Newbie Forum 2 07-12-2007 02:47 AM
Bread baking is like tennis james Hearth Bread and Flatbread 6 03-27-2007 03:33 PM
Bread baking follow up james Hearth Bread and Flatbread 7 02-23-2006 05:05 AM
Bread Baking Photos james Hearth Bread and Flatbread 0 02-14-2006 01:44 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:55 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC