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splatgirl 04-19-2010 09:59 AM

Sourdough crust
I am falling deeply, deeply in love with a higher hydration, scant kneading, stretch and fold sourdough for pizza skins.
I have sworn by the conventional yeast FB recipe dough and I do think for a quick dough it produces a fantastic result, but what I've done with sourdough the last couple of parties is just outta the park with the most amazing extensibility, tenderness and oven spring. INCREDIBLE oven spring.

The following is an adaptation of the "standard" FB recipe using techniques borrowed from Reinhardt and our FB resident sourdough pro texassourdough(Jay).

Splatgirl's sourdough pizza dough
~75g. of lively, 100% hydration starter (use more if you want shorter rise time)
500g. bread flour (I use King Arthur)
325-400g water (more is better but less makes for easier handling. gives a great result either way. for reference, the full amount = ~82% hydration)
10g. salt

Combine flour, starter and water and stir to hydrate. Let sit for 20 minutes. Add salt and knead for ~3 minutes or until dough has started to come together and smooth out a bit.
Dump onto wet or oiled counter and cover with oiled cling wrap
Using a wet dough scraper and wet hands, do a stretch and fold on each of the four sides of the dough blob (ala Reinhardt) every 10 or 15 minutes for 1 hour.
Cover and let sit for 1-2 hours at room temp, then do another stretch and fold and immediately portion into pizza weight balls (I like ~230g. and find that with this recipe I can use a smaller amount of dough than for a same-sized IDY dough pizza)
Depending on the vigor of your starter, let the dough portions sit at room temp 3 or 4 hours until risen by ~1/3 or so, then stash in the fridge overnight or until ready to use. Let warm up a bit before stretching into rounds. They should have doubled or more by the time of use.

This recipe just seems to work better and give more flexibility for doing a day or more fact it seems to get better vs. IDY dough that I did not like to work with next-day, forgetabout day two or three when it becomes an unruly mess and gets funky tasting. The oven spring is FABULOUS and gives a super light, fluffy crust. Even the dough rounds that I let the kids smash and abuse the heck out of bake up looking and tasting fabulous.

If I can tear myself away from this recipe for a minute, I am going to apply the same short knead, stretch and fold to the yeasted version and see if the results are similar.

Big Phil 04-19-2010 10:33 AM

Re: Sourdough crust
I was wondering of you could help me out. I also have been using a sourdough yeast in my dough but with not as good a result as you desribe. I'll try your recipe but have a question: when use take your yeast culture from the refrigerator do you 'restart' it or use it cold? I've been restarting it and it seems to be a real pain. The process takes anywhere from 2 hours to 12 hours (or more) depending on how long its been cold.

texassourdough 04-19-2010 11:46 AM

Re: Sourdough crust
Hi Splat!

Thanks for giving me credit whether I deserve it or not!

Sounds good! With really wet dough like this the amount you mix it is pretty arbitrary for you can't overwork it - it is too wet. I have been creeping into the higher hydration range also (though 74-5 percent has been about as high as I have gone on pizza dough. Mix to ragged dough, then mix some more (just to make the hydration uniform) followed by rests and folds is all you need. What you are really doing is making ciabatta range hydration pizza dough. The biggest trick is its stickyness.

One of the reasons I have stayed a bit lower is that I am using trays for dough and the wetter doughs are harder to keep from forming a puddle in the bottom of the tray. I have also been mixing harder to get the dough to come together enough to give a little more dough ball integrity (and not run together). But I have been only partially successful. (That is where I start getting jealous of the spiral mixers. They can make dough that is shockingly not sticky without the overworking issues.)

Thanks for sharing! I will try the recipe this weekend for ciabatta! (and maybe make a few pizza balls as well!


splatgirl 04-19-2010 12:12 PM

Re: Sourdough crust
Yo Jay
I think for me, what I needed to get comfortable with was the comparative UNDERWORKING, and the realization that less is better vs. the 8 or 9 minutes of kneading that I had been doing with the IDY dough.
Like I said, I intend to apply the same technique to the IDY version and see if the results are similar. My guess is no. There seems to be something about the way a sourdough interacts with the process of gluten development that is different from commercial yeast.

I know it's less practical, but after trial and error one thing I am 100% wedded to for successful pizza round shaping is portioning the dough into individual containers and then dumping directly from those into a bowl of flour, knocking off the excess and shaping. Reliably stick-free, gorgeous rounds with just the barest rub of flour on the peel and none of the headache of handling and trying to shape a super wet dough.
I've amassed a slew of small plastic bowls, but I think a couple of jumbo muffin tins would be a good multi-tasking alternative.

texassourdough 04-19-2010 12:23 PM

Re: Sourdough crust
I agree! IDY will not give the same result.

It is amazing how much a little (lot) of flour will do to make a dough manageable. And if you slap the dough round back and forth a few times almost no extra sticks but it will remain much more manageable!!! Would love to make pies with you someday! Everyone would eat well! :o)

heliman 04-19-2010 07:54 PM

Re: Sourdough crust
Love, rebellion, good food, slapping, headache, wedding and a Dr/Scientist ... hmmm all the makings of a good novel!!!

sjmeff 04-20-2010 06:02 AM

Re: Sourdough crust
Splatgirl - this sounds like a fun recipe that I'll have to try. I've been neglecting my starter of late so I'll have to revive it and give this a spin.

Do you happen to have any pictures of finished pizzas that you could post?


splatgirl 04-20-2010 06:54 AM

Re: Sourdough crust
No but I promise I will get some next time. Big parties are when I try and do a couple of different dough recipes for comparison but I'm also the solo prep chef and pizzaiolo so it's hard to get my act together (and my hands clean enough) for photos.

sjmeff 04-20-2010 07:02 AM

Re: Sourdough crust
Ha! Yeah, it's the same at my house. I'm a one man show. I'm usually racing to do everything so I can sit down to eat with everyone.

Anyhow, thanks for the recipe. I'll give it a try!

Fish Wheels 04-20-2010 07:49 PM

Re: Sourdough crust
Not having any sourdough I tried it with yeast, in my barbecue, no WFO yet.

The best pizza I've made so far, with the little knowledge, and tools at my disposal.
Thanks for the recipe Splatgirl. I altered it a little I used 74% hydration and 12% whole wheat that I grind myself, with 10% olive oil to the dough to help with the lower heat I need to deal with my pizza stone oven setup. I've never done sourdough yet, I need to learn how to make a starter. I'm new to all this baking stuff... I also made a loaf of bread in a Pyrex container in the barbecue.

I've learned a lot reading this forum, and hope to learn more, as I experiment with the great ideas you all are so wonderful to share.

Thanks again

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