Silky, Stretchable Dough - How?????? Pizza Discuss Silky, Stretchable Dough - How?????? in the Brick Oven Cooking forums; Originally Posted by heliman In re watching the FB video I see that the dough at the cutting stage is ...

[delicioso]

Originally Posted by heliman

In re watching the FB video I see that the dough at the cutting stage is very soft and floppy. As per Stan's question... my dough is not "floppy" but rather more stiff in texture. Does this need more water perhaps?

I have only used Caputo Pizzeria flour so far. My hydration is about 65%, plus or minus 2%.

Originally Posted by heliman

I'm sure that there is something small/simple that I am missing .. maybe using 3 grams instead of 10 grams of salt?

When I had problems like you are having, I was so obsessed with getting it right that I made large batches of dough with just water and flour so that I could practice. I added no salt or even yeast. It worked fine once I got the knack of handling. So I am less suspicious of the salt.

I have an idea. Flour and water are cheap. But it is always stressful to waste dough when you took two hours to fire up the oven and guests are waiting. Perhaps you can do some experimentation like I did, without the pressure.

May be your scale is the culprit. Can you add 1/2 cup more water than what your scale indicates and play with the amount of flour you add towards the end to get the consistency you like? It is harder to add water at the end than to add flour at the end.

[leckig]

in my case all the difference was made by the 12 hours in the refrigerator.

[heliman]

This has been an interesting exercise.

I handled the dough much less than before this tme around and the dough is now VERY floppy. In fact, I would say that it's a bit too floppy. I need just a small amount more firmness so that I can stretch the dough evenly when making pizzas. With the dough at the moment, if I lift it up to stretch it, even momentarily - it stretches too much instantly leaving me with a very large and thin pizza.

So the question is, how do I get that slight bit more firmness? Is a bit more kneading required perhaps?

Thanks everyone for the feedback so far...

Ross

[heliman]

**UPDATE**

Just watched the FB video on Youtube again and noticed that the method was as follows:

1. Prepare dough
2. Place dough in fridge for 12 hours
3. Cut into small sizes and shape into balls
4. Allow to rest for a few hours

I am:

1. Cutting dough and rolling them into balls
2. Proofing in the fridge for 12 hours
3. Remove from fridge for 1-2 hrs
4. Shape and bake

I am wondering if there is any advantage in cutting and shaping after the 12 hr proofing. I will give that a try and see if there is any difference in the stiffness of the dough..

Rossco

[Stan]

The salt will make a difference if the dough is too slack. Salt tightens and sets a gluten structure. But, since your dough isn't/wasn't slack at all, I'd do what you're doing and check both kneading and rest time.

Are you kneading by hand or with a stand mixer? How long? Does your dough pass the window pane test? Is it at room temperature when you start to shape?

Stan

ps...weather (and humidity) definitely makes a difference. It's only 2-3 percent, but that's huge in bread baking.

[heliman]

Yes I am kneading with a KA mixer.

Is is pretty much at room temperature when I am working with it (1.5 hrs out of the fridge).

I can stretch the dough but it goes thin in the centre and doesn't stretch uniformly. I end up having to push it togetherfrom the sides to get it right. If I pick the udge of the dough up (like in the DB video) it stretches way too much.

Weather has been pretty consistent here - although yesterday it was quite a bit warmer. If it is walmer is more/less water required?

Rossco

[Stan]

Sounds to me like you haven't found a happy kneading medium. A 65% hydration dough, in most weathers, will appear smooth when kneaded enough in a KA mixer (it's what I use). Mixing on speed 2 with a dough hook generally takes me less than 5 minutes (I pre-mix for autolyse with a wooden spoon). Be sure your dough passes the window pane test before you proof it. You should be able to get a fairly transparent membrane once you've worked the dough enough, but it should still be loose. It may not even clear the bottom of the bowl. Here in Florida with 90 degree weather and 80% humidity, things tend to stay sticky. If the dough stays too sticky, give it some folds before you rush off an add more flour. If you're using a lot of bench four, you're adding mass but not gluten.

When you take the dough out of the mixer, it should feel fairly loose. Once it rises/proofs, it should feel soft and stretchy without being sticky.

I really think you just haven't found the Cinderella spot in your kneading yet. Remember, pizza dough isn't bread dough. It's stretched much thinner than most bread dough can go. You want strong, extensible gluten. Overknead and you'll lose extensibility.

[KiwiPete]

In my experience, the type of flour makes a big difference. I think the FB videos were done using Caputo flour. And I think there is a BIG difference between Caputo and pretty much everything else.

[heliman]

That sounds about right Pete - though I have seen some of the local pizza places stretching dough which looks as smooth at the Caputo stuff in the video - but which likely isn't Caupo as Caputo is not freely available here in Oz. I am sure the guys aren't pay $140 /25kg without shipping to get it from Sydney so they must be pursuing other local flour options.

The Weston Milling flour gives me a great base, and I am sure that with a bit of effort I will be able add that slight bit off texture that will give me the "perfect" product. The cutting/shaping the following day I think will make a big difference and I will get to try this on Tuesday night as we are getting a friend over so I have an excuse to make some more dough. I am getting the "oh no NOT AGAIN..." line from my wife when she sees me cranking up the KA to make, *yet another* batch of dough ... in search of the perfect pizza.

Addiction .. what addiction????????

Rossco

[heliman]

Thanks Stan - some interesting points for consideration there...

I am starting off the next round of dough with the focus on less handling. As was demonstrated by the last batch - it was VERY floppy so I am thinking that if I handle/knead it just a bit more it should firm up that bit more for perfect handling.

I am also keeping the bench flour to an absolute minimum and just apply a thin film by using a shaker with a gauze insert which effectively sifts the flour going onto the bench.

I've researched the "window pane" concept so will give that a go to. In one of the FB videos on youtube I saw a guy using some sort of electronic device with a probe to test the dough. Not sure what that was but it seemed to give some kind of indication as to the "readiness" of the dough.

More (hopefully positive) results tomorrow ...

Rossco