Perfect Pizza Dough by Weight Pizza Discuss Perfect Pizza Dough by Weight in the Brick Oven Cooking forums; I have a question about pizza dough handling. Most dough recipes here describe dividing the dough into balls in advance. ...

[maver]

I have a question about pizza dough handling. Most dough recipes here describe dividing the dough into balls in advance. What advantage does this have vs just dividing the dough as you begin the pizza making? I have always divided the dough just prior to making pizza, but I also have rolled the dough out (with a tapered rolling pin) rather than stretching it. I have fair experience (only for home) baking bread and understand the idea of trying to reduce how much you handle the dough for breads like ciabatta or foccaccia, but it seems pizza dough is a different animal - even if you don't roll it as I do the stretching of the dough by fingers or by throwing the dough will break down most of the captured air bubbles. I plan to have a go at trying dough balls and hand stretching (but I like my crust really thin - can you stretch an 8oz dough ball to 14inches?) but wonder what I should be looking for with the difference.

[mikeyr]

If you like really thin crusts ( a proper pizza in my opinion ) then you should try hand working your dough, yes with a roller you can consistent results but I find working by hand will yield a thinner dough with practice. Also, I can't tell you about the dough balls vs. just dividing, as I have never done that, I always make up dough balls and let them rest.

Try the Caputo flour if you like really thin crusts, it does thin crust better than all the flours I have tried. I just think that the 65% hydration recommended here is WAY too much, somewhere between 60% and 62% seems to give me workable dough. The 65% was really tasty but too much work for a quick pizza at lunch time.

[james]

AHHHHHHH. No rolling pins.

I guess some folks like the cracker style crust, but it's not for me. Yeah, 65% hydration is extreme. The dough balls are really soupy. 60% is easier, and still a nice dough.
James

[tgm]

We have also tried to let the mix sit for a time prior to forming the dough balls and we, even as green amatuers, have noticed the difference. 20min to 1/2hr seems to work the best. We are using Caputo and the dough balls form wonderfully after proofing at room temp for 5-6hrs. We are using 275g dough balls for a 12in pizza as that's our peel size. You can stretch that dough paper thin and into a much larger round if you like. As novices we tried a rolling pin for a brief stint and then abandoned it's use after we got proficient at forming by hand. Much better texture doing it by hand also.
We are still only using 3g of active yeast per 1780g of Caputo and all the talk I see on this board uses much more than that.
We are about ready to try increasing the yeast, per this discussion thread, and wonder what the overall difference will be in proofing, forming taste etc.
Any clues or info would be helpful.

Thanks guys,

Tom in PA

[maver]

I didn't mean to cause you pain with the mention of the rolling pin . Since you have raised that concern twice, I had to revisit what I do. I built my pizza oven to improve on pizza that we have made at home since as long as I can remember. I never questioned my dough or my dough handling. So now I've wandered over to the pizzamaking.com website and have been reading a little. Our usual family dough is lower hydration than the recipe you suggest here. We've always divided it at the time of dough shaping. I tried your higher hydration dough with the same technique (divide at the time of shaping) and it really did not lend itself to hand stretching - this was not with Caputo flour, though. Then I read more at pizzamaking.com and also saw a link someone posted here and ended up following this recipe (as much as I could maintain my attention, it's really long):

http://www.sliceny.com/jvpizza.php

So, I made a similar high hydration dough with 75% baker's flour and 25% cake flour and then with a wet knead (and the rest of the flour added later per the directions) and dough divided into 180g balls I made 14 pizza last night. With this dough handling, there was just no need for a rolling pin. The weight of the dough was enough to stretch it. It was supple, as you said earlier. This was the best crust I have ever had. It stretched too thin at times (can't really hold up to toppings when you are reading through the dough) and so I'll try larger dough balls next time.

Anyhow, thanks for the bonk on the head with a rolling pin. My father was over for the pizza last night and he was ok with the recipe change (and he was raised in Naples). I expect I'll be placing an order for Caputo tomorrow, I just need to make sure my wife is ok with me buying a turning peel after watching the video from Youtube that DMUM posted. Why do you think they raise the pizza to the upper layers of the dome - are they checking the crust or flash browning the top?

[james]

The rolling pin thing is really a matter of taste. I guess it's a pet peeve of mine. Still, I'm glad your pizzas are working.

How long are you resting your dough balls after you shape them? They need time to relax.

There are various types of real pizza, each of which is authentic and different people like different styles. The main types include Pizza Napoletana (where you quickly hand toss the dough made from Italian Tipo 00 flour), NY style pizza (which is a slightly thicker and chewier and based mainly on US bread flour), cracker style (which has a thin and crispy dough that does not puff up around the cornice and is made with a rolling pin), and a much thicker Sicilian pizza (which is bread like underneath). There is even a generic "thin" pizza that you find in Italian pizzerias -- somewhere between Pizza Napoletana and the cracker style. I have heard people complain that Pizza Napoletana is too heavy for them. Imagine that -- if only they could see a chain store pizza, they would fall over.

There is definitely no "right" pizza.

I can't imagine using my oven without the turning peel --it's an essential.

[james]

Tom,

I have always thought that it is best to use just enough yeast to accomplish the rise you want in the time frame you want. If you have the time, and your dough is working well, I don't think there is any advantage to using more yeast. I don't find a yeasty flavor all that attractive and if your dough rises too fast, you are not getting all the flavor and texture you can from the flour. I've read numerous articles and books on how yeast and dough work (though of course I don't remember the chemistry), and the main theme seems to be that time and cold fermentation are good -- and that while you can hurry fermentation with more yeast and a 90F temperature -- such as bread machine, your dough won't be as nice.

When I am in a hurry, and want to be certain that my dough will rise in time for my dinner (or party or event), I will use a little extra yeast to be risk aversive, but that's all.

In one sense, I think your home pizza can be better than restaurant pizza -- where too often they don't have the time (or space, or refrigeration, or cost-structure) to do long ferments. The same is true with your olive oil. At home you can use the good stuff, where many restaurants don't.

James

[maver]

Originally Posted by james

How long are you resting your dough balls after you shape them? They need time to relax.

I made two batches, one 3 nights before and one 2 nights before, although I did not have my dough ball containers (used Glad 42oz square plastic containers) when I made each batch so they were divided and rested for 1-2 days each. Again, unbelievably supple and easy to work with. Our crust before this was in between cracker and VPN. Ordering the pizza turner and some caputo today.

[zopi]

Bout time I posted something useful...

I made a pie last night, was fresh Mozz and smoked black and green olives..

for those who do not have a smoker, grab a big box, poke two holes in two opposing sides, thread a dowel through the holes, rest a grill on the dowels with the box flipped over, cut a hinged flap in one side near the bottom..

ok that's yer smoker...now you need smoke..grab one of wifey's 8 or 9 inch
cast iron skillets..one she doesn't ever use.. and a ten dollar single burner hot plate from wally world...now, soak some hardwood chips, your choice, in a pan of water for at least a couple hours, but not much more than a couple days, load a handful into the skillet and cover it with heavy grade aluminum foil, poke a few holes in..the idea here is to keep the wood from catching
fire,
you just want it to smoulder..set the hot plate in the box, (far enough from the
carboard so as not to catch fire please...turn it on to about medium and
drop the skillet on the burner...now, watch and see how much smole you get, if it's great big clouds, turn down the fire, you just want a nice steady flow...

when you are happy with the smoke, you can put the food in by unfolding the
top (bottom really) of said large box.

Here is the fun part, take a pyrex pan or whatever (it's a cold smoker so temp isn't a big deal, washing out the dish later is a hassle though, pyrex makes it easy..loomnum foil works too... anyway, dump in a handful of green olves and some black olives, drizzle a little EVOO and sprinkle with garlic powder (lightly!) some pecorino romano, maybe a little white pepper..whatever you think is good..now smoke 'em until you like 'em!

you can then add the olives to anything you;d usually use olves for, but you might find that they don't last.

if you want to be the center of attention at a pot luck, chuck a few of these into the cuisinart and grinde em to pate, which can be used as such, or mixed with cream cheese and served on water crackers, maybe with a bit of lox and caviar...

try this...grab a block o half decent cheddar and smoke it...see, I just freed you from 8.00 a pound smoked cheese.

heh..salt cure some salmon and...well, you get the point..

Don't however try this with un cured meat...gotta have a hot smoker for that action.

yes, I did see that episode of Good Eats..been doing it this way for a long time.

with a little more equipment, you can make your own pepperoni..chorizo..
name it.

Oh..do this outside... If I didn't say it...
hope somebody finds this useful.

Edit: I see I got this in the wrong pigeon hole...feel free to move it...<DOH!>

[mgraban]

I just made some dough using the first James recipe, 500 g flour, 65% water. I actually added MORE water after the 10 min autolyse because the dough ball wasn't sticking to the bottom at all, it seemed too dry. Added maybe 1 tbsp extra, seemed ok when I pulled it out to rest.