#41  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:37 AM
Journeyman
 
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Location: minnesota, usa
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Default Re: Overworking Dough?

Oh boo!
It was worth a try and I don't think I'd give up permanently, but still. Boo.

Maybe stick to making singular tweaks to what you already know works. That's always been an approach that works for me and at least then you know you'll end up with something that's edible.

I am working the Reinhardt every day San Fran Sourdough right now which is really the first time I've done the mix, let sit, stretch and fold, repeat method. Despite my doubts, there was a big change in the dough after two stretch and folds with 10 minutes of rest in between. I've just shaped the loaves, and it's definitely got great gluten development after overnighting in the fridge, but is also really wet and floppy compared to what I know works well, so we'll see.

I'll try a batch of his pizza dough recipe next time I fire up the oven and we can compare notes.
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  #42  
Old 02-16-2010, 02:33 PM
heliman's Avatar
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Default Re: Overworking Dough?

Boo indeed!!

I was REALLY wanting this to work for me but unfortunately it was not even vaguely like dough. I reran the process in my head and compared it to Reinhart's recipe but was not able to detect any major faults that I may have made along the way. The unnaturally high hydration seemed to be the only thing that could have been reduced slightly but that should not have significantly affected the final results.

It is interesting to note that even with an overnight fermentation which characterises traditional no-knead process there was no gluten development. I think that Reinhart suggests that you can use the dough on the same day allowing a few hours rest - without the need for overnight fermentation (which is optional and mainly for storage purposes).

What I did observe was that the dough seemed quite suitable for bread making (ciabatta) so maybe that's where the process is particularly useful. Keen to hear of any further testing in this area. It certainly does sound like an interesting concept.
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Last edited by heliman; 02-16-2010 at 06:22 PM.
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  #43  
Old 02-16-2010, 07:34 PM
Journeyman
 
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Default Re: Overworking Dough?

I'm surprised you say there was no gluten development, because in that regard, the SF sourdough from my previous post was a-ok. The loaves baked up just eh. I think it's just too wet as written, or at least for how I read/follow his working instructions, so I ended up with flat-ish loaves despite decent oven spring. So a Boo for me too.
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  #44  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:51 PM
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Default Re: Overworking Dough?

I will agree that loaves are OK and the baguette like thing I made was quite nice, though I rushed it and kneaded and banged it into the over probably too quickly. Despite that rough treatment it rose well, had spring and some ciabatta like holes in it which was good.

Having said that, there was no way that it would hold up as a pizza though but perhaps done differently it may indeed work. Tha fact the you and others have had good results and as Reinhart himself espouses this method makes me believe that it does work. Maybe temperatures and other elements are more critical and less forgiving than the good old mixer method. At this stage I am not sure.

I was happy to try the process on a small amount of dough but with functions like I have this weekend for 12 people, I can't afford to take a chance. I will be following this topic closer now to learn more about it, and may in time give it another go.
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  #45  
Old 02-17-2010, 05:23 AM
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Default Re: Overworking Dough?

I had the same issue with my experimentation using no-knead pizza dough recipes. I just could not get it to stretch properly. I ended up throwing it against the wall, this of course gave everyone in my family a good laugh. It was a good thing we had pork chops in the fridge.
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  #46  
Old 02-17-2010, 05:51 AM
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Default Re: Overworking Dough?

Yes, I know the feeling!!!!

After carefully getting one floppy pizza onto the board, despite working quickly and dusting the board thoroughly, the thing stuck fast and I could get it off. Drove me crazy...

Funny chucking the errant thing against the wall ... very theraputic too!!!
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