How long to knead?

[Kings over Queens]

Ps...what are "S&F"s in the dough making process?

[Kings over Queens]

quick update...make a batch last night and achieved much better results.

Didn't have my normal flours in the house and had to use about 60% bread flour, 25% organic whole wheat and the balance regular all purpose.

I reduced the knead time to 5 minutes, not a second more, and the results were impressive. Now I need to see if I can duplicate with my regular King Arthur blend.

[texassourdough]

Sorry to be so slow responding KoverQ, but S&Fs are Stretch and Folds. Kind of hard to describe but there are lots of videos on UTube.

While trying to figure out what is happening it will be helpful to have consistent flour. The combo of BF (bread flour) and WW (whole wheat) will take a lot more water than AP (all purpose).

Hang in there!
Jay

[Peterreinhart]

I agree with everyone, in a way. You can't really over-knead unless you overheat the dough, but neither is long kneading necessary, especially if you hold the dough overnight in the fridge. Long kneading makes the dough stronger, and fool-proof, but the trade-off is that you might not get as much puff on the cornicione. I posted a recipe in the Instructional section of Pizza Quest, and will be posting a Neo-Neapolitan recipe on Wednesday, and in neither instance is long kneading required, as long as you hold the dough in the refrigerator for at least six hours before proceeding to making pizzas (and preferably, overnight or even for up to three days). You can, however, strengthen the dough in the early going by using the stretch and fold technique that I demonstrate on YuTube (I don't have the link here, but go to YouTube and plug in Peter Reinhart Stretch and Fold, and you will see how easy it is to do the S&F technique. It is especially effective for strengthening wet doughs. I'd love to hear what method you end up using and how the pizzas turn out.
BTW, Kitchen Aid highly advises against keeping the motor going for 15 minutes. I think they won't guarantee the warrantee if you go for over four or five minutes. Another good reason to use the S&F method instead.
Peter

[Peterreinhart]

BTW, Serf is not my screen name--I don't know how that got there unless there's another Peter Reinhart registered here. Does anyone know how I can change it to something else?

[Tscarborough]

Post a lot more, that is just an indicator of number of posts.

[GianniFocaccia]

Peter,

Here's an explanation of the FB membership levels. As you can see, your current activity level warrants forfeiting half your crops, but I'm guessing this obligation will be graciously waived!

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f14/...vels-1884.html (New Membership Levels)

[Kings over Queens]

Another update.

We hardly made much pizza this winter, but the times I've made it cutting back on the kneading to 5 minutes has made an appreciable difference.

Thanks for the advice.

Hopefully I can finalize the plans I started last spring for an outdoor oven.

[stonylake]

Good Luck if you decide to build, there is so much great advice here in this forum. i have taken the oil and sugar out of my dough recipe, i found that the bottoms burned much quicker with the sugar in the dough (650 to 700 degree floor temps). just flour, water, instant dry yeast and salt... and i make it the day before. i use a Kitchenaid and dough hook, blend the dry ingredients for 2-3 minutes, add the liquid and kneed for 4-5 minutes after the ball forms.