#11  
Old 07-26-2010, 03:43 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
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Default Re: Electrolux Stand Mixer vs. Kneading by Hand?

About halfway down the page at "http://www.thefreshloaf.com/keyword/video" you'll see a video "Making Bread: from scaling to baking". Even if you go no further the stretching that you see is what we're talking about when we refer to stretching and folding the dough. You would pull the dough out from the center of the dough ball and fold it back onto the dough and do this from all 4 points of the compass. After this is done cover and wait 10 minutes and do it again, wait 10 more minutes and again and then 10 more minutes and once more. At this point I cover the dough and put it away in the fridge over night and up to a few days before dividing into balls for use. This method is also what the two sisters in the FB video Section "http://www.sbs.com.au/food/foodart/210/Wood-Fired_Bread:_Italian_Style" Although the dough you see in this is much wetter and these ladies are doing all of this in the mixing "Vat". Cool Video! As for the dough springing back the gluten needs to relax and a bit of time will help here as will higher hydration. If you're using the 500G of flour to 350G of water along with salt and yeast and still having the problem, cooler temps can make things a bit more resistant to stretching so maybe pull the dough out of the cooler a few minutes earlier to come to temp. The difficulty that I was having was that I didn't have a feel for the higher hydration so things got too thin or not thin enough.

I'm still discovering.



Chris
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  #12  
Old 07-26-2010, 04:05 PM
SteveP's Avatar
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Default Re: Electrolux Stand Mixer vs. Kneading by Hand?

Thanks for the reply. I have been using the same recipe, "perfect dough", from the beginning. It has worked well to date with regular and bread flours, but I am now trying the Caputo 00 flour. I have a large b-day party in a couple of weeks and this will be the most pizzas I've made. I want to get everything down pat before then.
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  #13  
Old 07-26-2010, 05:36 PM
Peasant
 
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Location: Los Angeles
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Default Re: Electrolux Stand Mixer vs. Kneading by Hand?

Folding is a method of degassing without losing crumb structure...and probably not related to your issue of "spring back" which is too much elasticity and not enough extensibility in the dough. I expect the issue for you is related to either too low a hydration %, or a need for a longer, retarded fermentation....

As for folding, I follow the folding techniques in Jeffrey Hamelman's book, "Bread, A Bakers Book of Techniques and Recipes" (page 15, Step Four: Folding)
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  #14  
Old 07-26-2010, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: Electrolux Stand Mixer vs. Kneading by Hand?

Thanks ecopark. I have been using 65% hydration but only used 60% on a new batch that I just made. The 65% seemed too wet so I will work back up from 60% until I get better at handling the dough. In looking back at my spring back, I don't think I waited long enough after removing it from the fridge before trying to form the crust. I remember it being cold when I tried to form it. I just folded the dough twice and will do it a couple of more times before placing it into the fridge. I typically form the individual balls before placing them into the fridge but may wait to make them after I take them out. What I had been doing in the past had been working, but I want to be as precise as possible to get the best results.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:48 PM
Peasant
 
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Default Re: Electrolux Stand Mixer vs. Kneading by Hand?

65% seems fine for a hand mix (I usually shoot for 68% but end up at around 64% fter incorporating bench flour needed to keep the dough from sticking].

Forming the balls (known as a shape, or pre-shape) before doing the retarded fermentation in the fridge is definitely the right way to go -- you should take the dough out about 90 minutes before you want to bake.

You want the dough to be tender, so you don't need to over work it. 2 folds is plenty IMO.
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  #16  
Old 07-27-2010, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Electrolux Stand Mixer vs. Kneading by Hand?

I do my dough by hand as I dont have a mixer at the moment. The last batch I did I doubled up the mixture, but took out 1/4 cup of water and added 1/4 of olive oil instead. First time I had done this so I was keen to see how it went and I must say the dough was the best I have done! It was soft and stretched so easy! I do like using the hand method, there is something good about getting in there and getting all sticky and messy! You just have to be firm but gentle with the dough and you get great results!
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2010, 06:54 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Default Re: Electrolux Stand Mixer vs. Kneading by Hand?

the water portion must usually be decreased by an amount equal to 50 percent of the weight of extra oil.
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  #18  
Old 07-27-2010, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Electrolux Stand Mixer vs. Kneading by Hand?

I'm doing it all by hand now, stripped the gears on my old KA the other day. Some of the videos on this thread are great, thanks.
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  #19  
Old 07-28-2010, 08:29 AM
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Default Re: Electrolux Stand Mixer vs. Kneading by Hand?

I have done an immense amount of research on stand mixers and still can't decide which one to buy. KA 600 Pro for $280, Cuisinart 5.5 qt for $280, or the Electrolux DLX for $599. If I could determine that the KA has a metal gear box versus a plastic one, I would probably settle for it although I really want the Electrolux. Anyway, I made another batch of dough and ended up with about 70% hydration, and it was a nigtmare trying to mix by hand. It will be interesting to see how this batch turns out.
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  #20  
Old 07-28-2010, 08:45 AM
Peasant
 
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Default Re: Electrolux Stand Mixer vs. Kneading by Hand?

try looking at a globe SP5 i have one great
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