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-   -   Dough tearing problems (http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f10/dough-tearing-problems-20341.html)

SDMilne 01-26-2014 09:33 AM

Dough tearing problems
 
Having been making pizzas weekly or years now using a rolling pin, I have recently started attempts at handstretching in preparation for the woodfire oven I intend to build this year. However, it seems that once the bases get as big as about 6-7 inches, the dough begins to tear and in order to achieve a base of about 10-12 inches I have to start using the pin.

The recipe I have been using is as follows (it comes from the Pizza Pilgrims book)

1kg of 00 Caputo flour
600ml cold water
30g salt
2g fresh yeast

Is this perhaps too small a quantity of the fresh yeast? And indeed what is the best way to go about dissolving the yeast? Also, I vary between hand kneading and using a Kenwood mixer.

Basically any advice would be more than welcome, particularly on any modifications needed to quantities such as the yeast and what sort of time frame is best to knead with the Kenwood for.


Thanks in advance!

kkgator 01-27-2014 12:32 PM

Re: Dough tearing problems
 
SD,

Using a rolling pin on dough is akin to nails on a chalkboard for me & it will make your dough thin and cracker-like. Like bread, you want your dough to be light & airy and have those air bubbles/pockets. I have never used fresh yeast so I can't comment on the use of it from an intelligent standpoint.

If your dough is tearing then investigate the reason. Did you mix your dough enough for the gluten to develop? Cold dough also increases the likelihood of tearing. Has your dough relaxed enough to work with it? Are you using a large enough dough ball to achieve 10-12" of stretch?

I have never seen Caputo stretch farther than what you are trying to achieve. You'll have to go to a higher gluten % flour to achieve NY style stretches IMHO.

Greenman 01-27-2014 05:13 PM

Re: Dough tearing problems
 
SD - I have never used a rolling pin for pizza bases and don't use fresh yeast either so I will just tell you what works for me.

I use the FB Perfect Pizza Dough by Weight recipe http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f10/...eight-691.html
and hand stretch the dough. The method of stretching I use I learned from this YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbkfDqA8yKg.

This gives me the crust I am looking for, puffy edge and fairly flat base. I usually make a batch with 1kg Tippo Caputo 00 flour and after the first rise I divide it into 6 dough balls and then put them in individual containers and into the fridge. They are fine in there for up to a week or so and seem to develop better flavour after a couple of days.

Not sure if this will help but it works for me.

SDMilne 01-28-2014 09:59 AM

Re: Dough tearing problems
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kkgator (Post 168759)
SD,

Using a rolling pin on dough is akin to nails on a chalkboard for me & it will make your dough thin and cracker-like. Like bread, you want your dough to be light & airy and have those air bubbles/pockets. I have never used fresh yeast so I can't comment on the use of it from an intelligent standpoint.

If your dough is tearing then investigate the reason. Did you mix your dough enough for the gluten to develop? Cold dough also increases the likelihood of tearing. Has your dough relaxed enough to work with it? Are you using a large enough dough ball to achieve 10-12" of stretch?

I have never seen Caputo stretch farther than what you are trying to achieve. You'll have to go to a higher gluten % flour to achieve NY style stretches IMHO.

I mixed the batch in question for about 15 minutes in total and tend to use around 250g per pizza base. Is that too small an amount?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenman (Post 168775)
SD - I have never used a rolling pin for pizza bases and don't use fresh yeast either so I will just tell you what works for me.

I use the FB Perfect Pizza Dough by Weight recipe http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f10/...eight-691.html
and hand stretch the dough. The method of stretching I use I learned from this YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbkfDqA8yKg.

This gives me the crust I am looking for, puffy edge and fairly flat base. I usually make a batch with 1kg Tippo Caputo 00 flour and after the first rise I divide it into 6 dough balls and then put them in individual containers and into the fridge. They are fine in there for up to a week or so and seem to develop better flavour after a couple of days.

Not sure if this will help but it works for me.


What size of base are you stretching out from this recipe?

Thankyou both for your replies.

Greenman 01-28-2014 10:17 PM

Re: Dough tearing problems
 
Hi SD - The dough balls end up about 275 grams and I stretch them out to 12" or close to that.

SDMilne 01-29-2014 09:01 AM

Re: Dough tearing problems
 
So, in terms of the dough's ability to stretch, how much of a difference does the yeast make? Will I get much the same results from using dried sachets of yeasts as I will from using fresh yeast?

Greenman 01-29-2014 03:30 PM

Re: Dough tearing problems
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SDMilne (Post 168854)
So, in terms of the dough's ability to stretch, how much of a difference does the yeast make? Will I get much the same results from using dried sachets of yeasts as I will from using fresh yeast?

I have to defer to the extensive knowledge of those on the forum who are expert with such things. I have not used fresh yeast but expect that the dough would end up with much the same characteristics once the yeast has done its job.

Proper bread making is on my 'next to do list'.

Faith might have the answer you seek.

kkgator 01-30-2014 02:39 AM

Re: Dough tearing problems
 
Sd,

I think that the yeast plays a very minor role in the elasticity of the dough. My understanding is that the yeast consumes the sugars in the flour, causing CO2 as a byproduct which leads to air bubbles/pockets in the final bake. The speed of fermentation will also impart flavor. Slower fermentation = more flavor either through minimal yeast addition or a colder proofing environment (by putting in fridge).

There are tons of ppl on this board & elsewhere that can really talk yeast and I have presented a very broad explanation. Hope this helps. Really, whatever you're comfortable w/using, then use. Commercial yeast/dried lasts longer and is more consistent, but then again that is what I use. You could find someone who uses the opposite & has the same results. I've learned that there is no definitive answer. You can change the equation with different ingredients, time and temperature & still achieve an excellent end product.

SCChris 01-30-2014 02:01 PM

Re: Dough tearing problems
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SDMilne (Post 168700)
1kg of 00 Caputo flour
600ml cold water
30g salt
2g fresh yeast

I have a couple of suggestions of things that you can try.
  • First try 20g of salt, salt will tighten the dough and 2% of the total flour weight is a good starting place.
  • Second increase the water to 650ml, more water will also help relax the dough.
  • Third take a bit more time to stretch the dough, to let the dough relax when
working it. You might even stretch your dough until the dough starts to fight back and then leave it for a couple of minutes and come back to it. Is the dough cold or do you allow it to come to room temps before shaping? Room temp dough is always going to be more relaxed than cold dough..

Chris


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